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A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

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Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#241
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. That’s why all the software from, say, Microsoft works flawlessly and at peak efficiency.

This. It's exactly why Microsoft use modern frameworks such as React Native for their Start Menu used by billions of people every day.

And this is why SteamOS is absolutely kicking Windows’ ass on handhelds.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#242
post #79
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what I said. Only that the responsible engineers know which tradeoffs they make, and are competent enough to do so.

The decision to use react for the start menu wasnt out of competency. The guy said on twitter that thats what he knew so he used it [1]. Didnt think twice. Head empty no thoughts 1 https://x.com/philtrem22/status/1927161666732523596

Orange Cat Programmer.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#243
post #216
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do share any evidence to the contrary, but it seems that the Tweet is not serious and is not from someone who worked on the Start Menu.

I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMJNEFHj8b8&t=287s I googled the names of the people holding the talk and they're both employed by Microsoft as software engineers, I don't see any reason to doubt what they're presenting. Not the whole start menu is React Native, but parts are.

Why is that somehow worse?

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#244
post #7

The overlap of people that don’t know what TCP Slow Start is and those that should care about their website loading a few milliseconds faster is incredibly small. A startup should focus on, well, starting up, not performance; a corporation large enough to optimise speed on that level will have a team of experienced SREs that know over which detail to obsess.

This idea that performance is irrelevant gets under my skin. It's how we ended up with Docker and Kubernetes and the absolute slop stack that is destroying everything it touches. Performance matters. We've spent so many decades misinterpreting Knuth's quote about optimization that we've managed to chew up 5-6 orders of magnitude in hardware performance gains and still deliver slow, bloated and defective software prod…

If you’re implying that Docker is the slop, instead of an answer to the slop, I haven’t seen it.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#245
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you live fork containers like you can VMs? VM clone time is surprisingly quick once you stop copying memory, after that it's mostly ejecting the NIC and bringing up the new one.

I can't say I've ever cared about live forking a container (or VM, for that matter)

Your cloud provider may be doing it for you. Ops informed me one day that AWS was pushing out a critical security update to their host OS. So of course I asked if that meant I needed to redeploy our cluster, and they responded no, and in fact they had already pushed it.

Our cluster keeps stats on when processes start. So we can alert on crashes, and because new processes (cold JIT) can skew the response numbers, and are inflection points to analyze performance improvements or regressions. There were no restarts that morning. So they pulled the tablecloth out from under us. TIL.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Containers were invented because VMs were too slow to cold start and used too much memory. Their whole raison d'être is performance.

That's another reason they're so infuriating. Containers are intended to make things faster and easier. But the allure of virtualization has made most work much, much slower and much, much worse. If you're running infra at Google, of course containers and orchestration make sense. If you're running apps/IT for an SMB or even small enterprise, they are 100% waste, churn and destruction. I've built for both btw. The co…

Part of why I adopted containers fairly early was inspired by the time we decided to make VMs for QA with our software on it. They kept fucking up installs and reporting ghost bugs that were caused by a bad install or running an older version and claiming the bugs we fixed weren’t fixed.

Building disk images was a giant pain in the ass but less disruptive to flow than having QA cry wolf a couple times a week.

I could do the same with containers, and easier.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker good actually

nah - we'll look back on Docker the same way many of are glaring at our own sins with OO these days.

Docker is just making all the same promises we were made in 1991 that never came to fruition. Preemptive multitasking OSes with virtual memory were suppose to solve all of our noisy neighbor problems.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#248
post #64
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a corporation large enough will have a team of experienced SREs that know over which detail to obsess. Ahh, if only. Have you seen applications developed by large corporations lately? :)

a corporation large enough to have a team of experienced SREs that know which details to obsess over will also have enough promotion-hungry POs and middle managers to tell them devs to add 50MB of ads and trackers in the web page. Maybe another 100MB for an LLM wrapper too. :)

Don’t forget adding 25 individual Google Tag Managers to every page.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#249

The article has IMO two flawed arguments: 1. There is math for how long it takes to send even one packet over satellite connection (~1600ms). Its a weak argument for the 14kb rule since there is no comparison with a larger website. 10 packets wont necessarily take 16 seconds. 2. There is a mention that images on webpage are included in this 14kb rule. In what case are images inlined to a page’s initial load? If this…

> In what case are images inlined to a page’s initial load? Low resolution thumbnails that are blurred via CSS filters over which the real images fade in once downloaded. Done properly it usually only adds a few hundred bytes per image for above the fold images. I don’t know if many bloggers do that, though. I do on my blog and it’s probably a feature on most blogging platforms (like Wordpress or Medium) but it’s mor…

Inlined svg as well. It’s a mess.

Re: A 14kb page can load much faster than a 15kb page (2022)

#250
post #107
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talking about video streaming, I have a question for big tech companies: Why? Why are we still talking about optimising HTML, CSS and JS in 2025? This is tech from 35 years ago. Why can't browsers adopt a system like video streaming, where you "stream" a binary of your site? The server could publish a link to the uncompressed source so anyone can inspect it, keeping the spirit of the open web alive. Do you realise ho…

I see you mistake html/css for what they were 30 years ago „documents to be viewed”. HTML/CSS/JS is the only fully open stack, free as in beer and free and not owned by a single entity and standardized by multinational standardization bodies for building applications interfaces that is cross platform and does that excellent. Especially with electron you can build native apps with HTML/CSS/JS. There are actually web a…

I'm talking about big ideas. Bigger than WebAssembly. My message was about the future of the www, the next‑gen web, not the past.
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