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Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

americansunlight.substack.com

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Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#241

Post by HocusLocus »

DFHippie wrote: post #150
diggan wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying is certainly an established propaganda strategy of Russia (and others), but what parent is saying is also true, "truth" isn't always black and white, and what is the desired behavior in one country can be the opposite in another. For example, it is the truth that the Golf of Mexico is called the Gulf of America in the US, but Golf of Mexico everywhere else. What is the "correct" truth? Well, there…

The US hasn't switched to calling the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America. Partisans on the right do this to show their allegiance to Trump. Partisans on the left still call it the Gulf of Mexico to show their opposition to Trump. Big companies that can be targeted by Trump call it the Gulf of America to protect themselves. And most non-partisans still call it the Gulf of Mexico because they're not paying attention an…

Upvoted to discourage greyness. Your observation is very applicable and is heavily grounded in human nature. It's even funny! But it turned grey because no comment mentioning Trump is complete without the author stating how they FEEL about Trump. Extra greyness awarded for wrong answers. People trying to avoid entanglement in the partisan fight are the new 'enemies of America'.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#242

Post by saubeidl »

wiseowise wrote: post #223
saubeidl wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The morality of killing, as everything else, is a question of ideology. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers_are_murderers for a famous debate on this subject.

So the answer is yes.

Correct. There is no objectivity.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#243

Post by mjburgess »

mopsi wrote: post #227
mjburgess wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_missile_defense_... Literally everything i said is increadibly easy to google and source. It's all public information, from western sources.

That site became operational in 2023. There were no foreign missiles of any kind in Eastern Europe before Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. This is an indisputable fact. The rest of your narrative is just as flawed. For example, you refer to a civil war in Ukraine, but the European Court of Human Rights found in their lengthy and detailed verdict that no such conflict existed: it was a Russian military operation from t…

I really don't care about persuading anyone of this account. You can go find biden blackmailing the ukrainian leadership with threats of removing aid unless they play ball on changing gov appointments etc

The time to go thru all the sources on this and expose western propaganda would take longer than i care to spend. "Of course, ", there is no western propaganda.

Either way, I'm not defending russia; i don't care about any of the countries involved. At best, i'm on the side of peace -- UA should have negotiated early as was the public consensus of US generals at the time. Now it's all to late and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.

If you want to live in a world where your gov is virtuous; good for you. Let's just not train LLMs on people rabidly insisting that their side doesn't produce propaganda

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#244

Post by hackable_sand »

willis936 wrote: post #140
mentalgear wrote: post #41

"Ultimately, the only way forward is better cognition, including systems that can evaluate news sources, understand satire, and so forth. But that will require deeper forms of reasoning, better integrated into the process, and systems sharp enough to fact check to their own outputs. All of which may require a fundamental rethink. In the meantime, systems of naive mimicry and regurgitation, such as the AIs we have now…

The answer isn't a technical advancement but a cultural shift. We need to develop a discipline of skepticism and mistrust. No amount of authority, understanding, reasoning, etc. can be delegated to something that comes from a screen. This will take generations.

I think it's working! I completely distrust you now!

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#245

Post by QuantumGood »

dns_snek wrote: post #9

If actions by these bad actors accelerate the rate at which people lose trust in these systems and lead to the AI bubble popping faster then they have my full support. The entire space is just bad actors complaining about other bad actors while they're collectively ruining the web for everyone, each in their own way.

The "accelerate the end times" argument was probably made most famously by Charles Manson. The "side" effects from supporting bad actions are not good. Presumably you are being 51% or more facetious, but probably more nuance is preferable.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#246

Post by Terr_ »

filoeleven wrote: post #215
_Algernon_ wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We got the boring version of the cyberpunk future. No cool body mods, neon city scapes and space travel. Just megacorps manipulating the masses to their benefit.

The cool body mods are coming! The work at the Levin Lab ( https://drmichaellevin.org/ ) is making great progress in the basic science that supports this. They can make two-headed planaria, regenerate frog limbs, cure cancer in tadpoles; all via bioelectric communication with cellular networks. No gene editing. Levin believes this stuff will be very available to humans within the next 10 years, and has talked about h…

> cellular networks

I often like to point out--satisfying a contrarian streak--that our original human equipment is literally the most mind-bogglingly complicated nanotechnology beyond our understanding, packed with dozens of incredible features we cannot imitate with circuits or chrome.

So as much as I like the aesthetics of cyberpunk metal arms, keeping our OEM parts is better. If we need metal bodies at a construction site, let them be remote-controlled bodies that stay there for the next shift to use.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#247

Post by mopsi »

mjburgess wrote: post #243
mopsi wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That site became operational in 2023. There were no foreign missiles of any kind in Eastern Europe before Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. This is an indisputable fact. The rest of your narrative is just as flawed. For example, you refer to a civil war in Ukraine, but the European Court of Human Rights found in their lengthy and detailed verdict that no such conflict existed: it was a Russian military operation from t…

I really don't care about persuading anyone of this account. You can go find biden blackmailing the ukrainian leadership with threats of removing aid unless they play ball on changing gov appointments etc The time to go thru all the sources on this and expose western propaganda would take longer than i care to spend. "Of course, ", there is no western propaganda. Either way, I'm not defending russia; i don't care abo…

> Either way, I'm not defending russia;

Whether you recognize it or not, you are. You have been propagandized to such an extent that you perfectly repeat well-known lies from the Russian propaganda machine, all while being convinced that these are your original thoughts rather than something implanted in you. The accusation that Russia is surrounded by armies and missiles is the most obvious example. You did not reach that conclusion independently, because it's simply false. Someone told you this, and you repeat it without questioning.

Now, Russians are doing their best to poison LLMs so that if you ever start to doubt and try to consult an LLM, it will reinforce the same lies and you'll never escape them and you'll continue to reject the truth as "Western propaganda".

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#248

Post by mjburgess »

mopsi wrote: post #247
mjburgess wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't care about persuading anyone of this account. You can go find biden blackmailing the ukrainian leadership with threats of removing aid unless they play ball on changing gov appointments etc The time to go thru all the sources on this and expose western propaganda would take longer than i care to spend. "Of course, ", there is no western propaganda. Either way, I'm not defending russia; i don't care abo…

> Either way, I'm not defending russia; Whether you recognize it or not, you are. You have been propagandized to such an extent that you perfectly repeat well-known lies from the Russian propaganda machine, all while being convinced that these are your original thoughts rather than something implanted in you. The accusation that Russia is surrounded by armies and missiles is the most obvious example. You did not reac…

lol, these are not my original thoughts, nor have i read any russian sources or propaganda. These are extremely the mainstream views in western international relations literature

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#249

Post by mopsi »

mjburgess wrote: post #248
mopsi wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either way, I'm not defending russia; Whether you recognize it or not, you are. You have been propagandized to such an extent that you perfectly repeat well-known lies from the Russian propaganda machine, all while being convinced that these are your original thoughts rather than something implanted in you. The accusation that Russia is surrounded by armies and missiles is the most obvious example. You did not reac…

lol, these are not my original thoughts, nor have i read any russian sources or propaganda. These are extremely the mainstream views in western international relations literature

No, they're not, although Russian propaganda tries to create that impression by amplifying fringe voices like John Mearsheimer and Jeffrey Sachs.

If anything, the Western international relations crowd has finally woken up to recognizing Russia as a colonial empire and has found renewed interest in Eastern Europe's perspectives and recent history.

Re: Bad Actors Are Grooming LLMs to Produce Falsehoods

#250

Post by sofixa »

mjburgess wrote: post #248
mopsi wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either way, I'm not defending russia; Whether you recognize it or not, you are. You have been propagandized to such an extent that you perfectly repeat well-known lies from the Russian propaganda machine, all while being convinced that these are your original thoughts rather than something implanted in you. The accusation that Russia is surrounded by armies and missiles is the most obvious example. You did not reac…

lol, these are not my original thoughts, nor have i read any russian sources or propaganda. These are extremely the mainstream views in western international relations literature

Nope, they are mainstream only among people paid by Russia, such as the Marine Le Pen's and Tim Pool's of the world and people who can see they're being paid by Russia, yet still decide to trust them and by extension Russian nonsense.
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