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Working on databases from prison

turso.tech

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Re: Working on databases from prison

#241

Post by larkost »

freedomben wrote: post #225
tristan957 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we pay people 40 cents an hour just to say they aren't slaves, they they are slaves for all intents and purposes. They are put in poor working conditions working for for-profit companies, making much less than minimum wage. How is it legal for the State to not provide sunscreen or shade for inmates doing outdoor manual labor? https://theappeal.org/louisiana-prisoners-demand-an-end-to-m...

I don't disagree that 40 cents an hour is ludicrous and is only one notch above slavery, but I do think it worth pointing out that the work for 40 cents per hour is voluntary (i.e. they can quit or choose not to accept the work), whereas "slavery" is very much not.

In many cases the work is not really voluntary, there are sanctions for not taking it. Prisoners in some states are regularly put into solitary confinement for not "volunteering" to work these jobs (a punishment that some areas deem torture). With that amount of coercion I can't see them as voluntary, and so the slavery label is awfully close to the mark.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#242

Post by justin66 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #158
999900000999 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your doing the Lord's work. Even if you just paid him the state minimum wage, it would stop him from having a giant employment gap. The next step would be background check reform. A DUI record isn't relevant to anything not involving driving. Excluding a very small handful of SVU level crimes everything should be wiped clean after 5 years or so. I had an experience with a co worker who would brag about robbing people…

> Excluding a very small handful of SVU level crimes everything should be wiped clean after 5 years or so. My understanding, is that's what the UK does, with an exemption for certain jobs, like teachers and creche hosts. In the US, I think some states have the ability to expunge convictions. Not sure about federal crimes, though. The "scarlet letter" of a past conviction is a very real issue, and keeps some folks dow…

Different states have rules about expungement, as far as what happens automatically, what can be done if an offender convinces a judge, and how much it all costs.

Federal crimes (and I don't think that applies in this person's case since they're in a Maine DOC prison, although drug crimes of this kind easily could be charged by the feds) aren't usually expunged. Even if you receive a pardon, the original crime (and a note of the pardon) will exist on the record.

It's a really strange system. You're meant to lie and say "no" during interviews after your conviction is expunged if you are asked "have you ever been convicted of a crime," although I believe in many states it's now illegal to ask such a question.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#243

Post by freedomben »

larkost wrote: post #241
freedomben wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that 40 cents an hour is ludicrous and is only one notch above slavery, but I do think it worth pointing out that the work for 40 cents per hour is voluntary (i.e. they can quit or choose not to accept the work), whereas "slavery" is very much not.

In many cases the work is not really voluntary, there are sanctions for not taking it. Prisoners in some states are regularly put into solitary confinement for not "volunteering" to work these jobs (a punishment that some areas deem torture). With that amount of coercion I can't see them as voluntary, and so the slavery label is awfully close to the mark.

In those situations, I would agree that is pretty damn close to the slavery mark.

I've worked with a lot of prison facilities though in many states across the US and a few international, and have never seen that. That's not to say it doesn't happen of course, but out of curiosity do you (or anyone else) know of any facilities/jurisdictions that do that?

Re: Working on databases from prison

#244

Post by jamesblonde »

The scary thing is that Maine is considered progressive for prison.

My former (brilliant) student developed schizophrenia and tried to rob a bank with a gun because the voices told him to do it. He got 10 years in jail. I think every EU country would treat him for his condition until he was safe to rejoin society. In the US, he was thrown in the slammer.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irishman-jailed-for-10-years...

Re: Working on databases from prison

#245

Post by cooperaustinj »

tartoran wrote: post #228
dgacmu wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does he actually get the salary, or does the prison take huge overhead?

Even in the case he doesn't, it's still an amazing opportunity to learn that would lead to a better future for sure.

Why not just pay them in exposure? I hope you can think about why the proposal in your reply is problematic.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#246

Post by croemer »

Great story, I wish this inspired more prisons around the world to follow suit.

For those who don't want to hit Google, the conviction was for possessing 30g of a synthetic opioid "U-47700". A normal dose is ~1mg, 10mg can be deadly (so this was 30000 trips or killing 3000).

The drug became illegal across the US on November 14, 2016.

"Police said they found the drug in Thorpe’s apartment in Manchester in December 2016" (https://apnews.com/general-news-d68dca63e95946fbb9cc82f38540...)

"Preston Thorpe, age 25, was sentenced by the Hillsborough County Superior Court (Northern District) to 15 to 30 years stand committed in the New Hampshire State Prison for possession of the controlled drug 3,4-dicholo-N-[2-(dimethylamino)-cyclohexyl]-N-methylbenzamide (also known as "U-47700") with the intent to distribute. U-47700 is a synthetic opioid that is classified as a Schedule I drug." (https://www.doj.nh.gov/news-and-media/preston-thorpe-sentenc...)

Re: Working on databases from prison

#247

Post by bregma »

ty6853 wrote: post #130
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds good. It is important that we recognize all of the purposes of punishment instead of overemphasizing one or neglecting the other. Punishment has three ends: retribution, rehabilitation, and deterrence. It is important that you pay for your crime for the sake of justice; it is charitable and prudent to rehabilitate the criminal, satisfying the corrective end of punishment; and would-be criminals must be gi…

One of the most baffling elements of the justice system is how little the victim is involved in the justice. 'Society' should not lord the lion's share of the justice decisions over the victims. Quite often the victim would prefer compensation and release over getting fuck all while the perpetrator languages in prison at the tax dollar of the victim. Much of 'justice' has been usurped from the victim into a jobs camp…

You are baffled by the western concept of justice.

In western philosophy an offender is considered to have offended against society even if their crime is of a personal nature. As such, they are tried, condemned, and punished by society according to codified rules. A victim, if there is one, is not really a part of this process.

There is a fundamentally sound basis for this philosophy, including equity (different justice for different people is no justice for anyone), impartiality, and respect for human rights.

There are other philosophies of justice: for example, the traditional "I'm strongest I get the best stuff" or "you dissed me ima kill you." Some are codified similarly to western justice ("killing a man is requires you pay his heirs 100 she-camels of which 40 must be pregnant, killing a woman is half that, killing a Jew one-third, and so on"). Others involve negotiation between victim (or their families) and offender -- which often works out well, since the offender is often is a position of power to start with and is very likely come out on top.

The simple "an eye for an eye" is just the beginning of a very very deep rabbit hole you can go down on the road to enlightenment.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#248

Post by wat10000 »

ty6853 wrote: post #130
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds good. It is important that we recognize all of the purposes of punishment instead of overemphasizing one or neglecting the other. Punishment has three ends: retribution, rehabilitation, and deterrence. It is important that you pay for your crime for the sake of justice; it is charitable and prudent to rehabilitate the criminal, satisfying the corrective end of punishment; and would-be criminals must be gi…

One of the most baffling elements of the justice system is how little the victim is involved in the justice. 'Society' should not lord the lion's share of the justice decisions over the victims. Quite often the victim would prefer compensation and release over getting fuck all while the perpetrator languages in prison at the tax dollar of the victim. Much of 'justice' has been usurped from the victim into a jobs camp…

I strongly disagree. The victim is generally deeply incapable of being objective about the situation. How many perpetrators of domestic violence would go free because their spouse is too scared to ask for proper punishment? This is already a big problem with securing cooperation for prosecution, and I'd aim to make that better, not worse. You'd have enormous disparities in sentencing based on the personality of the victim. Should mugging a vindictive asshole carry a harsher sentence than mugging a nice person who believes in second chances no matter what?

The justice system is pretty far from actual justice in many cases, but this wouldn't get it closer.

Re: Working on databases from prison

#249

Post by bregma »

glommer wrote: post #30
chatmasta wrote: post #6

How does the compensation work? The US prison system has a bit of a nasty reputation when it comes to exploiting prison labor, so I hope those practices aren’t carrying over into these more forward-looking types of initiative… but at the same time, surely Turso isn’t paying full SWE salary?

I am the Turso CEO. We pay him a full salary, just not health care benefits.

Is he paid in dollars or in cigarettes?

Re: Working on databases from prison

#250

Post by Aurornis »

jamesblonde wrote: post #244

The scary thing is that Maine is considered progressive for prison. My former (brilliant) student developed schizophrenia and tried to rob a bank with a gun because the voices told him to do it. He got 10 years in jail. I think every EU country would treat him for his condition until he was safe to rejoin society. In the US, he was thrown in the slammer. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irishman-jailed-for-10-years...

> I think every EU country would treat him for his condition until he was safe to rejoin society. In the US, he was thrown in the slammer.

From the article, his parents express frustration at their inability to get him committed for treatment in Ireland. They cite the lack of response there as a key factor in his spiral.

Also, the US facility he was sent to did offer psychiatric treatment and the judge urged him to accept it:

> The judge recommended that Clarke serve his sentence at a prison that would give him access to psychiatric treatment and he urged Clarke to accept it.

I understand your objections to the “slammer” but the sentence was actually as lenient as could be, offered the psychiatric treatment he needed, and had an opportunity for him to return to Ireland in a couple years:

> Speaking on behalf of the Clarke family, solicitor Eugene O'Kelly said that they were relieved at the relative leniency of the sentence and expressed the hope Clarke could be returned to Ireland "within a year or two" to serve out his sentence.

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