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Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

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Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#241
post #180
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t have to be that way; learning a language is a long process. I took about 3 years to reach real practical fluency, and I still have to say “what?” more often than I’d like and I still need to learn a ton of more advanced vocabulary. Duolingo unfortunately doesn’t offer any C1 content so I’m stuck using other methods.

Imagine the shareholders saying: "Why settle for 3 years when you can milk people for a lifetime? If it takes 10,000 hours to master something," it doesn't but they'll likely use that meme, "and you plan to spread that learning over 72 years, they must not spend more than 22 minutes a day actually learning anything! The rest of the day should be adverts and retention."

I could see it as well. For me currently, I’ve completed 100% of the Spanish course, and I’d like to keep learning more, but there’s no more content. I think there’s a lot of more legitimate opportunities they could find, in the way of more content, to keep me coming back. Right now to be honest I just continue using it to maintain my streak, since I’m already fluent. But! I’ve recently started learning Italian, and maybe that way they can get a couple more years out of me.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#242

My wife quit Duolingo the week before this announcement after years of watching Duolingo prioritize attention manipulation over learning. She had a nearly 6-year streak and was on the paid version at the time, but realized that it wasn't actually helping her learn any more: she'd at some point begun maintaining a streak just for the sake of maintaining a streak. The best documentation for Duolingo's decline is this a…

When you think about it, if Duolingo does a good job of teaching language, people will stop using it. It’s the same problem with Tinder: people who stay together delete the app.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#243
post #225

Their comments cemented to me that they have no long term value. If the ceo of Duolingo thinks AI will teach me a language then I’ll use a low cost LLM to get there without Duolingo.

I'm at a fairly high level in learning spanish, which mostly came from actually speaking the language and just studying the dictionary etc... Duolingo was absolutely useless - and that was 6 years ago. I can only imagine how terrible it is nowadays. Anyway, Im responding to you because i find ChatGPT to be a FANTASTIC tutor. Like I was absolutely blown away. It can do all the translation stuff, but also answer questi…

The same is true for many subjects and LLMs.

When I am learning something new in development, the LLM is immensely useful since it has unlimited patience, and I can zero it in on exactly the level of complexity or understanding that I need.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People behave as if AI were going to eat the software. I, and many others, don’t believe that is going to happen.

I'm guessing you're a SW engineer. It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what high level managers/CEOs think.

In the short term, maybe.

In the long term, actual results will tell us what parts of the process matter.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I returned to Duolingo recently -- I used to use it heavily but set it aside for 2 years -- I counted 14 gamification popups in a row after my first lesson in a new language. 14! The damned popups lasted longer than the lesson had! I switched over to Busuu, which has blatantly copied some of Duolingo's mechanics but at least uses them with a modicum of restraint.

This sort of notification-barrage is a common problem in mobile apps with multiple teams and I really wish it wasn’t. I still use Facebook quite a bit and I’m consistently frustrated by how degenerate the concept of a “notification” has become. Some of the finest engineers I know work at Meta, I know it’s not a technical problem, I think it’s an organizational problem. For example… Team A ships feature X and sets the…

> Some of the finest engineers I know work at Meta,

"The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks." - Jeff Hammerbacher

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People behave as if AI were going to eat the software. I, and many others, don’t believe that is going to happen.

I'm guessing you're a SW engineer. It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what high level managers/CEOs think.

> I'm guessing you're a SW engineer.

> It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what high level managers/CEOs think.

In the short term, perhaps. In the longer term, it matters whether it actually works.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#247

It’s kind of interesting for the CEO to position DuoLingo this way, because without the human element, DuoLingo feels like exactly the kind of service to be disrupted by AI, which I guess is part of the reasons he’s trying to take the foot out of his own mouth. But it does sort of highlight that I think sooner rather than later, human curation will be a selling point, once AI apps become more the norm.

If Duolingo doesn't disrupt themselves with AI someone else will. The strength of LLMs makes them now rival usefulness of SRS for language learning. >human curation will be a selling point Look at the success of TikTok. Automated recommendations enabled it to become one of the top apps in existence. There is not evidence that consumers care who curated the content. The quality of the recommendation is experimentally…

but Social media companies suppress human curation in favor of their algorithmic recommendations; while human curation doesn't scale as a business model, it still competes for attention—and is thus marginalized.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I studied German for 3 years in university, dabbled in German duo-lingo, and completed all German courses on Memrise. I don't see how one can learn German fluently using Duolingo (or even Memrise, which I think is much better). It's great for vocabulary, but I think understanding the grammar requires understanding the theory which I didn't see when I used these applications.

I used Duolingo maybe ten years ago to get myself up to approx A1, mid-A2 level German. Back then every new piece of grammar actually had an explanatory page that you could study before jumping in to the quiz games. As the enshittification began, they made these harder to find so that instead encountering a new linguistic concept in the quiz felt like a cruel guessing game. For beginners to German these days, I heart…

It's a big button that looks like a notebook at the top of the screen. It's not hidden at all. As I recall it used to be only on the desktop and not in the app, but it's readily available in the app now

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#249
post #174

For me, the problem with Duolingo has always been that the content is just too lowest-common-denominator, and this will just bring it down even lower. I switched a while ago to Seedlang ( https://www.seedlang.com/ ), and while it only supports French, German, and Spanish, I can at least say that the German course is everything I actually wanted from Duolingo. Every exercise involves a real video of a real German spea…

I like that Duolingo gives me some kind of curriculum and guides me through new concepts so I'm exposed to new words and study them for a few days at a time. But you have to be intentional with your learning to actually learn. Learning a language is hard, and Duolingo knows people will stop using their app if they challenge people too much and the app becomes a place to feel bad about how little Spanish you know. So…

> My main wish from Duolingo is some kind of lesson I could go into that just grabs questions from old lessons with words/phrases you haven't done in a while.

This exists, but not for free users.

Re: Duolingo CEO tries to walk back AI-first comments, fails

#250

My wife quit Duolingo the week before this announcement after years of watching Duolingo prioritize attention manipulation over learning. She had a nearly 6-year streak and was on the paid version at the time, but realized that it wasn't actually helping her learn any more: she'd at some point begun maintaining a streak just for the sake of maintaining a streak. The best documentation for Duolingo's decline is this a…

A real question: did she actually learn a language? 6 years should be enough to be fluent at any language. My opinion is Duolingo just doesn’t work and never will. People are fooled by the gamification but it’s a time wasting app/game that gives an illusion of productivity. Like Minecraft with words.
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