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Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

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Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#241

Post by ryukafalz »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #230
ryukafalz wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capabilities themselves can certainly be implemented at a very low level; you might implement them as an array of capabilities associated with each process: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-list_%28computer_security%29 As that page points out, POSIX file descriptors are effectively c-lists. A capability operating system would use similar mechanisms to control access to resources other than just open files. The other t…

The Plessey 250 was a great one... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plessey_System_250

Ah, thanks for the reference! Yes, there are a lot of very old capability systems in computing history.

I've got a copy of Capability-Based Computer Systems on my shelf that I've been meaning to read for a while, and it covers the Plessey System 250: https://homes.cs.washington.edu/~levy/capabook/

Very much not a new concept! Though note that this book was published in 1984 and there have been several newer developments in the capability literature since then. (Revocation for example, which is mentioned as an issue in chapter 10 but has since been addressed with some capability design patterns.)

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#242

Post by Kwpolska »

nmgycombinator wrote: post #174
Kwpolska wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the macOS "just drag it to Applications" approach is the uninstall. Deleting the folder will not delete user data (what if it's damaged?), and it won't delete any system stuff the app created on the first run. A typical Windows installer is likely to do the former and will definitely do the latter.

I do agree that uninstallation can be hard on macOS. I think Apple just envisions a future where every app is self-contained and putting the app in the trash really does remove everything because it was all in there. Maybe that's not realistic, though. I still think there's something to be said about an installation/uninstallation process that relies purely on moving files around, no custom script execution.

The "drag it to Applications, move to Trash to remove" flow was invented decades ago, possibly even back in NeXTStep [0]. Application bundles are not meant to be writeable, user data cannot be written there. If Apple envisions a future change, they’re really terrible in implementing it.

[0] https://www.nextcomputers.org/files/manuals/nd/Concepts/Inst...

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#243

Post by bigyabai »

SSLy wrote: post #226
MiddleEndian wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I consider looking switching back to MacOS (left because OS X 10.7 was becoming too much like iOS and I don't like the idea of apps having to be signed and/or in an app store) and holy shit I am glad I left.

it's still better than windows. Compared to Gnome or KDE one could argue either way

For development work, I honestly prefer Windows. At least WSL knows what you want to do and gets out of the way. Comparatively, making a "correct" shell on MacOS often entails QEMU and local NAS, alt-tabbing between that and your native terminal for version control. Or you build your server software to be MacOS-native for debugging and port it to Linux later like a neanderthal.

Just... no. MacOS looks pretty but the workflow is uglier than Satan's taint. I don't get paid to work around Apple's dysfunction.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#244

Post by MiddleEndian »

SSLy wrote: post #226
MiddleEndian wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I consider looking switching back to MacOS (left because OS X 10.7 was becoming too much like iOS and I don't like the idea of apps having to be signed and/or in an app store) and holy shit I am glad I left.

it's still better than windows. Compared to Gnome or KDE one could argue either way

I did Linux for a bit, but I was really impressed with Windows 10 once I disabled all the junk. Good window management, WSL is fantastic, I really like a few windows-specific utilities, and programs. I like having the Adobe suite + a nix env.

That being said, Windows 11 is making me consider jumping back to Linux, along with me being increasingly annoyed by Adobe.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#245

Post by [deleted] »

dylan604 wrote: post #66
trollbridge wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply run `xattr -d downloaded-app.dmg` on apps I download that I trust to turn off this behaviour.

yeah, 'cause that's so much easier than just saying yes to the prompt, or right-clicking and selecting open from the context menu

[deleted]

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#246

Post by ziml77 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #190
matthewfcarlson wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just realized that it asked for your system password if you don't have Touch ID.

Having Touch ID does not immediately make all password popups disappear. I think it may be because of MDM/security settings my company puts on my work macbook, but now I get the joy of password prompts that sometimes work with Touch ID and other times demand a password. I prefer UAC over whatever the hell Apple is doing. I've had days where I close my applications after a day of work and find two or three password pr…

Nothing with MDM, it's just what happens with those. I have no idea why it happens but I suspect in some cases it's badly coded apps directly asking for creds rather letting the OS do it. Whatever the reason for it is though, it's very annoying and pretty sketchy.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#247

Post by ziml77 »

muppetman wrote: post #45

I remember the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC ads that mocked this on Vista. And now my Mac is worse than Vista. It's so annoying.

I find Linux even more annoying when it requires elevation. I get a password prompt rather than a yes/no dialog. I don't care about defending against an attack where I left my computer unlocked while I wasn't watching it, so the password request is pointless. The only thing I need to see is that I'm elevating something and the only extra security I want is that, like on Windows, it's impossible for an application to automate clicking yes.

Last I checked there was no solution for this on Linux though. Heck I couldn't even find a way to switch it to use biometrics.

Re: Can you trust that permission pop-up on macOS?

#248

Post by muppetman »

ziml77 wrote: post #247
muppetman wrote: post #45

I remember the I'm a Mac and I'm a PC ads that mocked this on Vista. And now my Mac is worse than Vista. It's so annoying.

I find Linux even more annoying when it requires elevation. I get a password prompt rather than a yes/no dialog. I don't care about defending against an attack where I left my computer unlocked while I wasn't watching it, so the password request is pointless. The only thing I need to see is that I'm elevating something and the only extra security I want is that, like on Windows, it's impossible for an application to…

You can just make sudo not require a password... You'll never see any prompt again then.
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