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LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

librelingo.app

241–250 of 376 posts

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#241
As someone who knows four languages[1] (picked every single one up during childhood) and is currently learning Sanskrit, I have to say that Krashen's input hypothesis and Orberg's Lingva Latina is probably the way to go if you are learning languages as an adult.

The direct teaching method works but is time-consuming and generally used for languages that lead to an occupation, viz. English. The grammar translation method is a waste of time. It might satisfy your intellectual curiosity about the structure of the language but you won't be able to make yourself understood after a lifetime of study. I wonder at the sheer lunacy of dumping thousands of random sentences into your lap and translating it from one language to another.

After a year and a half of false starts, I started reading a couple of Sanskrit stories every day. Because the context is maintained across the story, your brain starts recognizing patterns in sentences. You keep reading sentences like

sarvē janāḥ kāryaṁ kurvanti

sarvē janāḥ gacchanti

sarvē janāḥ namanti

and you automatically associate sarvē (all) with janāḥ (people) without needing to know the declension of those words. This applies to the cases as well.

To be able to converse about or understand a wide variety of topics, you will eventually have to move beyond stories due to restrictions on the tense/aspect/moods you encounter as a result of the nature of the material. But that is doable.

[1] Much of India is bilingual. A substantial minority might know four or more languages due to the many mother and father tongues and heavy internal migration across the states (whose boundaries were drawn on linguistic lines post-independence)

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#242
It's a bad idea to imitate Duolingo, which has become VC without a purpose.

The gimmick behind Duolingo was that there were so many things online and in the world that needed to be translated, so training people to learn languages while translating them was a win-win. We don't really need humans to translate written material anymore (esp with AI advances), and they never seemed to find a business model for that anyway.

Since the gimmick is gone, it's just a generic language learning app with unimpressive results. And that still uses primitive spaced repetition algorithms. The bottom fell out. But since Duolingo had attracted a ton of cash on their founders rep from reCaptcha, it zombies on.

I've had my account since the beta, and while I think it's good because it exposes people to a ton of words and utterances in their target language which they will hopefully roll around in their mouths, that's like step 1 in learning a language. Anecdotally, I had to abandon Duolingo entirely in order to learn Spanish; and not for a class or tutoring, but for their competitors both online and traditional.

Techniques in language learning seem to be advancing quickly (like with spaced repetition, TPRS, and Krashen-inspired stuff), but Duolingo seems to be studiously ignoring them all, and plowing on doing the same thing. I think they should ditch everything but the cartoons, which are cute. But their base gets outraged whenever they change anything because Duolingo's changes were made in order to shift to getting revenue from the users rather than from "translation," so the users do not trust them.

So Duolingo really have nothing but cute cartoons and a brand name. LibreLingo looks like they have cartoons, too. Other than those, there's nothing to distinguish Librelingo from any other Spanish-learning website.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#244

Duolingo user here with a 4 year streak. Duolingo is not a language teaching platform at its core. It’s a gaming platform with language as its gaming skill. Duolingo at some point became so focused on gamification that it just became a game (I believe they hired their lead PM from Zynga). If you’re on free version, just look at the ads you’re getting. Vast majority of the ads are for other games. I think you can lear…

I actually really like this take. Despite the fact that most language learners hate on it, Duolingo has great product market fit, and I think it's for this reason. It's in the toilet time distraction/edutainment market as much as it is in the language market

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comprehesible input. find something basic you can understand and immerse your self in it. Often this is childrens books/shows or similar level designed for adults. at the start you use a translation dictionary to look up ever word which is boring - which is why approaches like duolingo where they give you around 2000 common words to memorize quickly are useful. However the goal is to learn just enough of that list th…

Maybe “immersion” works if you already know the language and are going for fluency, but I don’t see how it can get you from zero to one. I’ve tried as an adult and failed to learn my wife’s native language and no amount of “input” at any speed or level helps. It just washes over me and I don’t understand anything.

Comprehensible input is not immersion.

> It just washes over me and I don’t understand anything.

Things you don't understand are not comprehensible to you, so this was not experience with comprehensible input. If you don't know anything at all, you can at least collect words.

Look into "graded readers." They're basically children's books, except native children are fluent and would find them primitive.

What you're looking for is a situation where you understand 98% of what is going on, and you're baffled by the last 2%. If that situation is two- and three-word sentences spoken slowly, then that's the input you should be looking for (and which Duolingo isn't bad for.) The goal is to walk away from that thing you knew 98% of, but now with the last 2%.

Anecdotally, download comic books in your target language. The pictures help enormously in getting you to that 98%.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#246
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a false dichotomy. Focusing on grammar is not the opposite. I don't follow you. I did not claim that focusing on grammar was a literal opposite of anything. I claimed that in my case "repetitive learning by example" turned out to be less boring than "repetitive learning by memorizing grammar". In order to translate a randomly generated (thus never seen before, non-memorized) sentence from one language to an…

You don't have to consciously and rationally understand the grammar - you didn't when first learning to speak your first language! Stephen Krashen is a pretty good researcher on this - the summary is that exposure to the language for time (e.g. 500 hours of content you just about understand) is the critical factor. This is training non-conscious parts of your brain's neural network. Some people like understanding the…

> Some people like understanding the grammar and structure of a language consciously, and it can help as a mnemonic aid for anyone.

Also, if you're looking for entertaining reading in your target language, grammar books are going to be interesting to you. The goal during language learning is to find interesting content that you understand, and your target language's grammar is a known hobby of yours.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it different from SRS? If you need to learn the strokes for thousands of characters you will need something like SRS.

Spaced repetition is a highly effective method for learning languages, particularly for vocabulary/character acquisition, but it is not the only method and particular implementation of it in the software, really matters.

It is the only method in that it is a generic term. Without spacing there will be too many words to review at once. Without repetition it will be hard for people to learn things in one try. Spaced reputation is required to scale. But do language learning apps need to scale to handle a lot of information? Technically no, but the incentives around making apps make it so that SRS will added and dominate the product.

I will agree with you that the implementation matters, but ultimately anki will cover one's needs for SRS and open source efforts should go towards improving anki.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always wanted to learn Japanese, thanks for the tips!

I have started learning japanese roughly 6 months ago, and I luckily stumbled upon this fantastic Anki deck: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/911122782 It focuses on teaching grammar and vocabulary through listening comprehension. The creator has put an immense amount of effort into it, to a point where I cannot believe its free. I highly recommend it.

Did you create an account just to shill this?

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#249

Very nice initiative, the language space is overcrowded with commercial offers that have an incentive to keep you locked in. Apart from LanguageTransfer there seem to be few other good offers. That said, looking at the current offer it seems to lack the one thing Duolingo offers: Duolingo (for all its many faults and pedagogical uselessness) takes the burden of decision making away - I don't need to really think what…

for Chinese (which duolingo is garbage) study stroke order, then get children books and the Pleco app.

Skritter is good for stroke order

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#250
post #241

As someone who knows four languages[1] (picked every single one up during childhood) and is currently learning Sanskrit, I have to say that Krashen's input hypothesis and Orberg's Lingva Latina is probably the way to go if you are learning languages as an adult. The direct teaching method works but is time-consuming and generally used for languages that lead to an occupation, viz. English. The grammar translation met…

i don't know why people are taking Duolinguo and relatives as the definitive course to learn a language... they even cite at their FAQ about the need of going outside the app if you want 'fluency'

some people are quite fine learning a limited number of phrases to lurk in a country. a great part of communication among humans also happens with the body/eyes. no one needs to discuss their phD dissertation in 4 different languages

[0] https://blog.duolingo.com/can-duolingo-make-me-fluent/

edit: Duolinguo also is nice (and make a funny non-invasive joke) if you are using something like uBlock!

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