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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#241

Post by [deleted] »

jdminhbg wrote: post #234
freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is. Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and…

[deleted]

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#242

Post by adrr »

lurk2 wrote: post #178
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but then you just say, we have enough naturally occurring fluoride. Adding more is just a waste of money. Or, toothpaste has enough extra fluoride, adding it to water is just a waste of money. This is not that. This is the US health system being lead by a bunch of woo-woo people who don’t understand how research works.

> This is the US health system being lead by a bunch of woo-woo people who don’t understand how research works. The majority of the developed world does not fluoridate their water supply. The US has one of the highest rates of fluoridation in the developed world. Within America, fluoridation rates are highest on the East Coast and in the South, and lowest on the Left Coast.

There’s also fluoride salt added to table salt that is widely used to accomplish the same thing as fluoridating water.

https://www.acffglobal.org/salt-fluoridation/

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#243

Post by bink »

bennettnate5 wrote: post #184
jedberg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that is due to the Mormons. While they tend to vote Republican, they are some of the biggest socialists out there. They believe in giving 10% of their income to the church (and enforce it!). Then they redistribute to their poorest members in the form of free private education at all pre-college levels and highly subsidized college as well. And with food banks, free or subsidized medical services, and whole b…

> and only applies to their believers (who happen to concentrate in Utah) Worth noting here that the church additionally spends north of $1 billion annually on humanitarian aid across the globe [1] (separate from the redistributions to the poor mentioned by OP). Aid is provided independent of religious affiliation. [1] https://philanthropies.churchofjesuschrist.org/humanitarian-...

Al Capone ran soup kitchens. He seemed like a good dude. What percentage of their global wealth is $1 billion? I wish I knew but for some reason they keep that a secret. And don't leave or they'll expect your family to cut you off.

*: searches suggest the wealth of the church to be around $265 billion. So their members give 10% annually to the church and the church gives less than 0.5% of their total wealth to the poor (but mostly to other Mormons or prospective converts). If you're wondering why they keep this massive horde of wealth, it's because they think it'll be needed for the apocalypse. Yes, it's for the apocalypse.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#244

Post by petesergeant »

wokwokwok wrote: post #188
Jimmc414 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd really like to hear your take

Talk to your dentist. They are experts in this field, and, unlike “random person on the internet who spent 2 minutes on google”, have informed opinions on this topic. If you want a serious discussion on why fluoride is good or bad, that’s where you need to go. Random person on the internet is very easy to disagree with, because we’re all idiots right? It’s a very easy lazy way of self confirmation. …but if you are se…

> Talk to your dentist

The vast majority of dentists are not public health experts, and will have little to offer other than “exposing your teeth to fluoride regularly is good”.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#245

Post by nozzlegear »

DeepYogurt wrote: post #237
nozzlegear wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

Scale is a scapegoat. Take the US region by region and you can find analogs around the world.

The US isn't several countries put together, region by region. It's one big ass country. I really don't see how taking it region by region somehow eliminates scale issues when you still have to apply it to the entire country.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#246

Post by cratermoon »

thakoppno wrote: post #223
JKCalhoun wrote: post #171

Pretty sure I read that fluoridation is a communist plot to undermine American public health [1]. Sorry, that was the John Birch Society from the 1960's. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_water_fluoridati... (I'm having some fun, but it is in fact the first thing that comes to mind when I hear objections to fluoridated water. Since we're talking about RFK and Utah, I kind of assume it more or less stems…

> Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.

Ice cream, Mandrake. Children's ice cream.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#247

Post by rdtsc »

freehorse wrote: post #123

This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact. Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it? It is completely bizarre witnessing both sides getting so polarised around a basically non-issue.

> This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre, around some kind of issue that the rest of the world has by large solved but without any acknowledgement of this fact.

> Maybe the US should look into how other countries have solved it?

I mean Utah is trying, sorry it took a while. I know Germany and Sweden don't fluoridate its water, I assume you mean Western Europe by the "world" (sorry if I am interpreting too much here, but that's usually what's popular to compare US to and bash US on how bad it is), so US is getting "with the program", finally I suppose. States having individual laws here is a benefit, one state doesn't have to wait for the Federal Government to act.

> This is one of these US-specific polarised debates I find really bizarre,

I don't think it's that polarizing? Unless 1) you're listening to US media more and 2) you're not getting many non-polarizing issues in the news, because those are well are just boring and don't sell ads.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#248

Post by nozzlegear »

jimbob45 wrote: post #200
nozzlegear wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one thing you're not considering (especially when you say we should vote with our feet) is poverty. It’s true that fluoride toothpaste is widely available, but for people in poverty, of which there are millions in our country, basic hygiene items like toothpaste and a toothbrush aren’t guaranteed. Neither is it guaranteed that everyone has a perfect daily brushing habit like the dentist tells us; there are pe…

[flagged]

Your argument essentially amounts to "why are poor people poor when they can just get a job." I can't find anything to say about it that isn't snarky.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#249

Post by _heimdall »

nozzlegear wrote: post #185
ews wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US rarely looks into how other countries solve problems. (i.e. Universal Healthcare, High Speed Trains and so), this is the sad part of "American Exceptionalism"

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

There shouldn't be a scale issue with regards to fluoride in the water. It is either scientifically shown to be beneficial or it isn't, scale and geography likely have nothing to do with it.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#250

Post by nozzlegear »

panick21_ wrote: post #230
nozzlegear wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

This is the excuse all American use about literally every single issue anytime anybody points out that other do things better. Most often without actually having thought about it beyond 'muhuhu US BIGGG! USA! USA! USA!'. If you want to make that argument, actually make it, because if you try, 99% of the time its not actually true, its simply ignorance.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here except that you take a dim view of Americans.
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