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Moving away from US cloud services

martijnhols.nl

241–250 of 383 posts

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I just finished moving most of my stuff to a bunch of small (but stupidly powerful) machines in my and my parents house. They sync and work very well. It's a nice feeling, finally everything is hosted and backed up and in my own hands. Of coourse, this is not for business, although I would have no issues hosting small busness on here; it's more robust than most single vps solutions.

Doesn't that go against the whole "one local, one local external storage, one remote" backup redundancy?

Maybe, but i'm not running a bank here and I do, regurarly, stick in an external drive to run a backup. It's pretty well protected all in all. Definitely better than 'if google kills my account for no reason at all'.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#242
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he mentioned also Quad9 - Cloudflare DNS replacement. I didn't know about and will probably switch to it. My other picks: SEARCH: qwant (france) LLM: mistral (france), librechat.ai, openwebui VPN: mullvad (sweden), protonVPN (swiss) AUTH: OpenID (sadly seems like not many sevices implement it) CLOUD: Hetzner (germany), OVHCloud (france) MAPS: here wego, openstreetmap EMAIL: protonMail (swiss), fastmail (australia) DN…

I thought fastmail was Australian..

Australia is in Eurovision so it counts

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#243
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every country has interests groups trying to push backdoors into end-to-end encrypted services, what's your point?

Not everybody's chief has a nickname "Zensursula" (German word for censorship ("Zensur") and her given name ("Ursula")).

This is such a forced pun.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#245

I would like to see a movement more along the lines of "Moving away from cloud services", not just US services. Our computers are faster than ever, internet bandwidth is not a problem, public IPs affordable. Why not self host when possible?

Why move away though? The cloud subsidizes for "free" a lot of powerful services that the average user can only dream of self-hosting. And the price is what? Your browsing history? Personalized Ad's? Provided you don't AdBlock that is! I like the symbiotic relationship. I do believe in safeguarding yourself from getting locked out of your life due to your Google acc getting banned but outside of that I see no harm in…

And the price is what? Your browsing history? Personalized Ad's? Provided you don't AdBlock that is!

Regardless of what you think of using your private data in exchange for free services, the problem with the cloud owned by US companies is that to us outside the US it seems like any kind of blackmail now seems fair game.

Since Vance threatened to drop NATO support if the EU regulates Musk's platforms [1], temporarily holding hostage our data to 'win' a trade war does not seem that far-fetched anymore.

Also, if the US ends up trying to make good on their threat to annex Canada or Greenland, then we are strongly dependent on a hostile state. We learned some lessons from being dependent on Russian gas.

[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's no surprise nobody uses it for sensitive content anymore I get password reset links for pretty much every website on email. Few things as sensitive as that. I also receive and send documents, signed or for signing, with pretty sensitive information, over email. I agree it shouldn't be used for those but it certainly still is.

There's so many organisations moving away from it though. Email password recovery yes. But really, what does Proton's E2EE add to this? The email is still sent unencrypted across the internet. And only gets encrypted when it gets to their mailbox. It's not as if someone could easily break into gmail either. Unless they know your password but then Proton is just as vulnerable. I just consider their "Security" window d…

Many emails aren't sent unencrypted any more — just not E2E encrypted. It's harder to stop an active MITM from downgrading the connection, but the bulk of non-spam messages to my server come in with TLS. And while it's not going to be possible for most people, I have pinned most of my larger destinations to require TLS with a suitable certificate, so I can have confidence that my outbound email won't transit the Internet unencrypted.

Obviously if you're a client of a big hosting service that you don't trust then E2E has value. But that's not the whole problem, or the whole solution.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something important to keep in mind... It's the current US leadership blowing up relationships, not the other way around.

That's arguable. If you're in an unequal relationship the best way to go about them is to reset them to a base equal state and then build the relationship again.

"Equal" is a very relative concept, and trying to move from unequal to that in a month or two after decades of having a reputation of being a stable partner is only going to make it more difficult.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#248
post #140

Maybe one really needs 'the cloud' (whatever that is) or the accompanying services, I don't know, but I do know that good old webhosting is still around. At least here in The Netherlands. Good for email, good for websites and webapps, good for data storage. There are enough options to choose from the decentralized menu of hosting offerings. Most are cheap enough also, but watch out for the slightly bigger webhosting…

The cloud, speaking for small-to-medium companies, is two things; a directory server with file storage, email, and an attached suite of productivity tools (e.g. Microsoft 365 or Google Workspace), and virtual, distributed infrastructure (e.g. AWS, Google Cloud, or Azure). You can build the offerings commonly sold as "cloud" yourself, but it requires a ludicrously unreasonable amount of engineering work to reinvent th…

I did not necessarily need an explanation of what 'the cloud' is or isn't. I came to believe it's definition is vague on purpose. I found out it's (almost) the same old internet with new shiny marketing labels on it (I say 'almost' because clubs like Netflix probably need their movies stored near the end user for seamless HD streaming). With the end goal of getting everyone's data on someone else's server (so they can control it, eventually without your permission). It works because programmers who might understand technically what it is, usually don't call the shots when some Big Tech salesperson offers shiny new apps from the US.

Luckily, I don't need a cloud. Not someone else's cloud, not even building my own cloud. Why? Because the technical progress required for me to save, work, share and publish stuff online (or locally on my computer) was already there from the '90s. And luckily, it's not standing still. Although every exec and marketing boy wants you to believe the only good stuff is the next hyped up stuff.

We see the same thing happening with LLMs and AI. It's marketing fluff all around, by people who so fully believe in it that it becomes scary. And it's hard to argue against it, because it is impressive what LLMs can do. It's also bullshite and has nothing to do with reasoning, or thinking, or whatever human capabilities are projected onto a digital parrot (I don't want to ruffle some feathers, pun intended, a lot of people probably have good use for LLMs and it's still interesting that people work on these systems).

A computer, an internet connection and some webhosting get's you more than far enough for most use cases. Without vendor lock-in.

There's more to technology than only technology.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's a good alternative to Proton? Still haven't migrated my business away from Google Workspace, and I was thinking Proton would be a good alternative, but apparently not if they don't even support IMAP/SMTP.

Mailbox looks very solid, although I don't have long-term experience: https://mailbox.org It provides email, online storage, video conferencing, calendar etc., all of it privacy-preserving by default. You explicitly don't have to provide any personal details.

Seconded. I'm using mailbox.org for my business for 4 years now, and haven't had any problems so far.

Re: Moving away from US cloud services

#250
post #106

> Wrapping up - Migrating away from US cloud services was easier than I expected. This is absolutely not the main takeaway and I find it difficult to see how he could write this - there are gaping holes. Git repos (it's too difficult). NPM (ditto). Startpage uses Google's index. The only meaningful switch he mentions is Proton, but as other comments have pointed out they have vendor lock-in problems. The real takeawa…

he mentioned also Quad9 - Cloudflare DNS replacement. I didn't know about and will probably switch to it. My other picks: SEARCH: qwant (france) LLM: mistral (france), librechat.ai, openwebui VPN: mullvad (sweden), protonVPN (swiss) AUTH: OpenID (sadly seems like not many sevices implement it) CLOUD: Hetzner (germany), OVHCloud (france) MAPS: here wego, openstreetmap EMAIL: protonMail (swiss), fastmail (australia) DN…

I’m curious about mailbox.org, which markets themselves as “privacy made in Germany“
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