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Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
241–250 of 530 posts
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of the uses in Western countries weren't even to disperse anyone, they were used as giant speakers to broadcast messages, e.g. during Covid in Germany. It's crazy to compare that to what seems to have happened in Serbia. It's like saying "Carter has used a hammer, too" when commenting on a murder, and leaving out that Carter used the hammer to build houses with Habitat for Humanity.
"whataboutism" is pernicious, widespread, and devastating to civil society.
Precedent if I like it, whataboutisn otherwise.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
> These are weapons that would violate the Geneva convention, but we're okay with them to disperse a crowd. Isn't that a category ban that came out of a couple specific members of that category that were used and had particularly nasty effects? And then countries' domestic law enforcement rules tend to be defined in different terms.
It is. People think that the "Frangible bullets and teargas banned by the Genevan Conventions" means that they're seen as too cruel to use in war. Unfortunately the "wisdom of crowds" that we've created on social media has decided that it does. The reality is that we're talking about the views of people in 1925, as informed by a previous group of people in the late 1800's. They were far more concerned with avoiding t…
> Who knows maybe the versions that existed in the late 1800's did too
The ones now and back then aren't any different. They do inflict greater suffering when the injury isn't immediately lethal. They essentially maim the target.
There's a legitimate case to be made for home defense because they won't penetrate common building materials nearly as far. It makes them much safer to anyone in the surrounding area.
There are also cases where the additional stopping power is invaluable, for example against a pack of dogs.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
Once there's violence targeting you, the solution is to bring real weapons and resolve it using ordinary military tactics, that is, you kill the operator.
That sounds bold and exciting, but it's clearly false and terrible advice. Violence, like warfare, is politics by other means. Every expert knows that law of warfare - the first law of warfare, in a sense - that it ends when and only when there is political agreement. Even in warfare, violence just buys time and changes your political position. In countries with rule-of-law, you can use the political / legal system t…
> the only solution is political.
This an idealized version of revolution and assumes elections are available and respected... There's rarely no violence during the fall of authoritarian regimes, even the most famous version of non-violent protest succeeding in India included a lot of fighting by Indian nationalists that pushed Britain to withdraw.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#245I wonder how the engineers and scientists who contributed to that less-lethal weapon feel about it.
Probably enjoyed working on cool sci-fi shit. Invisible weapons are pretty cool -- though I think conceptually the heat ray class ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System?useskin=v... ) is cooler than the LRAD class. How they're used or should be used? An unimportant question in the face of coolness. Then there's just basic pride in good engineering or craftsmanship that can help spark joy in whatever one…
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Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
FPV drone blowing up the LRAD. Total cost below $1000.
At that point, you should realize that a round of 7.62 is under $1 and equally effective.
An LRAD is a big speaker array so you'd need a lot of shots to take out enough of the array or a lucky shot and angle to hit some control box.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are aware that these LRAD systems have been used against US citizens, aren't you?
Police also regularly use tear gas against US citizens. These are weapons that would violate the Geneva convention, but we're okay with them to disperse a crowd.
How do you feel about the defensive use of pepper spray?
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
are they against the Geneva convention because of the direct effects, or because in a war you’d then proceed to kill everyone while they’re coughing?
AIUI they are mainly banned because they could lead to escalations in chemical weapons usage. If your enemy uses tear gas vs cs gas, it could be hard to tell right away and you might feel pressure to use all the tools you have available (including lethal chemical weapons) vs. Play by the rules. Of course if you are fighting a real war, there is probably going to be chem weapons used. It happened in Syria. It is happe…
> Geneva convention is wishful thinking.
It is a convention. It is useful for applying pressure. It certainly seems to reduce their use.
You could as well say that laws against murder or theft or whatever are wishful thinking.
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If you were at a protest that was starting to get a bit rowdy and somebody used one of these on you, what would you do? Leave. The moment it turns into a riot you’re doing damage to your cause. (If you’re in a protest and see hooligans, restrain them.)
That's good advice, but I mean what do you do when you get home? Now that your right to assemble has been effectively revoked, what's your next step?
Come back the next day?
Re: Military grade sonic weapon is used against protesters in Serbia
#250It's the most important time in human history to protest/fight unchecked power because it's likely the last era of humanity that we are going to be able to.
We are getting to the point where the technology that fuels oppression, including extremely pervasive surveillance, privatized intelligence services with no oversight, scalable AI agents that do as they are told, and crowd "maiming" or other forceful dispersal techniques are growing past the ability to resist them.
Wars historically happened under conditions where people died but the planet was largely left in tact, but we now have 3 countries with the ability to erase entire cities or make the world functionally uninhabitable by humans, which absolutely changes the calculus of war. If you do not have nukes your sovereignty is questionable.
Likewise if the tools to put down crowds, find saboteurs, and weed out dissent is perfected, meaningful dissent can only be expressed through withdrawal and there is no final check on abuses of power where any, instead of some, of the "checkers" of power are left in tact. Anti-dissent technology has the potential for a nuclear moment that fundamentally changes the calculus of protest and I think AI is very much potentially that.