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Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

world-nuclear-news.org

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Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#241

Post by JumpCrisscross »

xybercow wrote: post #234
FrancisMoodie wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, so you're claiming that GDP data and such is not correct? Any source on that? Because I see multiple sources reporting that in 2023 the GDP of Russia was $2,009,959M and that of Italy was $2,300,941M, although Italy has a higher debt %. Which would confirm the original posters claim considering Italy is a much, much smaller country than Russia. What I find a common trope is people claiming facts are incorrect wi…

At the start of Feb 2025 USD was 100 RUB, a few days ago it was 85 RUB. Does this mean their nominal GDP grew by 15% in one month? In some cases it's fine to use Nominal GDP while in other cases, you should use GDP PPP instead. When you look at PPP figures, Russia's economy is on par with Germany or Japan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) Anders Puck Nielsen just published an interesting v…

> When you look at PPP figures, Russia's economy is on par with Germany or Japan

The Russian economy cannot produce half of what Germany or Japan can. That means they have to import it. Which means the truth is somewhere between PPP and nominal GDP. (The simplest statistical treatment is to PPP domestic industries and nominalise imports, but that’s really an analysis one must do oneself as the assumptions are too numerous for convincing someone who’s already concluded adversely.)

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#242

Post by gpderetta »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #159
lifeinthevoid wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the Netherlands able to control these devices? I would be very surprised if that were the case.

Codes are not given and are only in America.

The code is 00000000 anyway!

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#243

Post by otikik »

lovegrenoble wrote: post #131
snowwrestler wrote: post #99

Maybe not well known, but during the 20th century a number of nations started a nuclear weapons program, but then were convinced to halt the work by security guarantees by the U.S. You better believe that every single one of those nations is now revisiting that decision. For those wondering if Italy can afford to build nuclear: their economy is larger than Russia’s. As is Brazil’s, another nation that put nuclear wea…

Can We Please Stop Comparing Russia’s Economy to Italy’s? Who's comparing Russia's economy to Italy's? Apparently Lindsay Graham did in 2014. CNN in 2022. I like this article because it made me think about Russia and it's economy in a way that I didn't fully appreciate before. The article calls out an argument that compares Russia's economy to Italy's economy, using nominal GDP as a measurement. This is supposed to b…

Are you an AI?

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#244

Post by throwaway48476 »

ben_w wrote: post #229
throwaway48476 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all nuclear plants in the west were built in the 70s and 80s. The number built since is miniscule so of course the costs are going to be huge, they're one off projects.

True but irrelevant. The construction of new reactors now is unlikely to be in numbers greater than back then. (Unless new ones are SMR, which is why there's now business interest in SMRs. They may well have numbers large enough to cut costs).

The other issue is that nuclear research has been underfunded for decades. We could have had new safe effective and cost efficient designs.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#245

Post by Fidelix »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #210
snowwrestler wrote: post #99

Maybe not well known, but during the 20th century a number of nations started a nuclear weapons program, but then were convinced to halt the work by security guarantees by the U.S. You better believe that every single one of those nations is now revisiting that decision. For those wondering if Italy can afford to build nuclear: their economy is larger than Russia’s. As is Brazil’s, another nation that put nuclear wea…

Yep - Trump's actions are going to weaken the US's position on the world stage by pushing everyone else to provide for themselves what they had previously got from the US (security, advanced compute, etc). Trump appears to only think in short term transactional way - no long term strategy.

> pushing everyone else to provide for themselves what they had previously got from the US

Did you write this, review it, then post it as if that's a bad thing? wow

edit: grammar

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#246

Post by tim333 »

hoseja wrote: post #182
snowwrestler wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U.S. support of Ukraine fulfills a commitment we signed, and which Russia broke. The U.S. president doesn’t seem to care about international commitments, though. How does that work out in the long run? Would you do business with someone who tells you up front that they might break any promise they make?

Has the US ever honored their word when it mattered? You do business with them because otherwise they roll up with warships.

In normal business the US is usually pretty good. A lot of the reason people trade with US dollars is the system normally works.

Also in matters of security they did a good job between 1945 and 2014 of keeping peace in Europe and stopping Russia running amok which was not that easy in Stalin's day.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#247

Post by JumpCrisscross »

n3storm wrote: post #100
miklosz wrote: post #94

Oh, I hoped it's about nuclear weapons. Pitty, it's not. Now, as US is slowly leaving NATO, European countries should urgently work on increasing their nuclear capabilities, developing strategic and tactical nuclear weapons and means of delivery (rockets, bombers, submarines).

So you think Americans honestly think nuclearly destroying Europe will give them peace?

> you think Americans honestly think nuclearly destroying Europe will give them peace?

American here. It’s becoming clear that a sizeable section of our electorate only respects nuclear sovereignty.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#248

Post by dahart »

lovegrenoble wrote: post #135
mpweiher wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually: it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi...

While CNN's assertion that Russia's economy is on par with Italy's in nominal GDP may be technically accurate, it does not fully consider the economic nuances that are crucial to a comprehensive analysis. This is an example of propaganda.

The WP link shows sourced data from the IMF and World Bank. Why did you respond to that with an unsourced claim this is CNN’s assertion?

The GDP ranking involves all countries. So whose propaganda is it, and what’s the motivation? If it’s technically accurate that Italy ranks above Russia by GDP then what’s the basis for calling it propaganda? Typically propaganda is nationalistic and spreading false information within a country and being used to justify a country’s moves against another, not international verifiable facts that are technically accurate and not being used to justify some action.

GDP is a single summary metric, not a comprehensive analysis. It’s entirely possible that Russia’s and Italy’s rankings could swap when using a different economic metric. That certainly doesn’t mean GDP rankings are propaganda.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#249

Post by Salgat »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #240
Salgat wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, the upholding of the security assurance is still left up to the discretion of nations in the agreement, based on how important non-proliferation of nuclear weapons is to them. It seems that recently, nuclear proliferation is no longer a concern for the US, hence they no longer enforce this agreement, which is their right, for better or worse.

Please cite the discretionary parts of the agreement that US is not upholding or will stop upholding.

The agreement has no explicit terms for whether or not nations must enforce it, that's left up to the nations to decide on their own. It was intentionally written this way, otherwise Russia would have never agreed to it.

Re: Italy moves to reverse anti-nuclear stance

#250

Post by sras-me »

pjc50 wrote: post #168
trhway wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is lucky that Zelensky is the President of Ukraine and not somebody like me - given that Ukraine does have plutonium from its power plants, i'd be already making the warheads (technological difficulties? they were solved 80 years ago and with the modern tech the 3 years is more than enough to produce something working). That is also notable in the context of Trump yelling at Zelensky that Zelensky is suppos…

It's very, very expensive and (until last week) it was critical to keep the US on side, which would be jeopardized by breaking the nonproliferation treaty. The MAD argument still applies: Ukraine can't threaten to nuke Moscow without Russia obviously threatening to retaliate with nukes.

I am curious about the plan of Europe about on countering a nuclear first strike on Ukraine by Russia, because the latter has run out of options because the war dragged on and on by the support from Europe, draining Russia of everything they have..
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