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TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

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Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#241

Post by Waterluvian »

dmitrygr wrote: post #231
hcurtiss wrote: post #224

By saying China's using Tik Tok to subvert "democracy," aren't we really saying voters are not individual agents but rather a mob subject to manipulation by propaganda? I sometimes cannot believe it's those who so loudly cry about threats to "democracy" that simultaneously take such a cynical view of the democratic process. Rather than tackle the narratives substantively, they'd argue about who gets to manipulate the…

> voters are not individual agents but rather a mob subject to manipulation by propaganda Was this ever not the case?

This is the fundamental problem with American democracy and democracies all over the world.

It only works if the voters are well informed, educated, and generally competent. Otherwise it’s just a manipulation game where someone can lie and lie and lie and be elected president. And at that late stage phase of democracy, who gets to manipulate these people better is who holds power.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#242

Post by nradov »

hcurtiss wrote: post #224

By saying China's using Tik Tok to subvert "democracy," aren't we really saying voters are not individual agents but rather a mob subject to manipulation by propaganda? I sometimes cannot believe it's those who so loudly cry about threats to "democracy" that simultaneously take such a cynical view of the democratic process. Rather than tackle the narratives substantively, they'd argue about who gets to manipulate the…

If TikTok was only targeted at voters then I think there would be less of a concern. My issue is more with what it shows to children. Science and law recognize that children aren't yet fully individual agents and are more susceptible to propaganda than most adults. Thus legislators and courts have been more willing to restrict commercial speech targeting children.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#243

Post by MichaelDickens »

lm28469 wrote: post #215
hbarka wrote: post #196

“Congressman Michael McCaul (R-TX), the author of the bill to ban TikTok, owns hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock in Meta, one of TikTok's chief rivals. Senator Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) bought up to $50,000 worth of Meta stock last January before voting to ban TikTok in April." Exhibit 1. https://www.capitoltrades.com/issuers/431610?page=2

To be fair they're all inside trading and most of them are corrupt. Time to wake up America

Suppose I wake up and discover that all congresspeople are insider trading. What do I do next?

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#244

Post by tims33 »

hcurtiss wrote: post #224

By saying China's using Tik Tok to subvert "democracy," aren't we really saying voters are not individual agents but rather a mob subject to manipulation by propaganda? I sometimes cannot believe it's those who so loudly cry about threats to "democracy" that simultaneously take such a cynical view of the democratic process. Rather than tackle the narratives substantively, they'd argue about who gets to manipulate the…

I agree with everything you're saying, but I also can't fully square up that the equivalent American apps aren't allowed in China. This is about freedom of speech on app built by a country that has no freedom of speech. I realize this point is orthogonal, but is still an important element of the decision.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#245

Post by nfw2 »

spicyusername wrote: post #30

Man, the current democratic party just does not know how to solve problems in a way that people appreciate. Absurd that the Republicans are somehow going to swoop in and "Save the day" on an issue they themselves championed.

It seems like an oversight to me that all the discussion about political impact leading up to this has focused on consumers. Statements like "Gen Z likes TikTok, so banning it risks alienating them", "Gen Z will forgot about TikTok and move on to the next thing in due time", etc.

I think this overlooks one key detail. The focal points of the new online world -- "influencers" -- rely on TikTok for the lion's share of their income. Taking away a fun toy might not radicalize someone but taking away their livelihood might.

And even if these users are a tiny fraction of a percent, they wield outsized influence (obviously). They are the new media. Risking losing these people, many of whom have been largely apolitical, seems like a huge tactical error in retrospect, and one that Trump would predictably take advantage of if given the chance.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#246

Post by whatthesmack »

airstrike wrote: post #58

My read is that the US government originally wanted to try to force TikTok to restructure its relationship with China so it wouldn't be under control of the party, either by leaving the country or more likely selling to a US-friendly owner. This was the argument when Trump toyed with the idea during his first mandate. Occam's Razor suggests this was due to both a matter of national security from the perspective of th…

I had to scroll past too many "free speech" takes to finally get to this well-thought analysis of the saga.

It has nothing to do with free speech. The US was always going to wind up owning TikTok and influencing speech on the platform. The key issue was price, which is affected by leverage. The strict top-down, centralized control ideals behind CCP/ByteDance/TikTok (they're all the same) were once again outdone by the aforementioned "powers that be".

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#247

Post by notfed »

idhegeu wrote: post #155

Trump should launch a Tiktok clone on Truth Social in 90 days when the reprieve expires. I'm surprised there wasn't a new platform ready to pounce on new users. Absolutely nuts that one of the biggest refugee destinations is literally named after a Mao-era propaganda tool. But in all seriousness, there's 3 branches of government and 2 of spoken. Trump's voice should be moot. Hopefully he's put in his place by our ins…

He for sure pitched this, but his team does not have the skills to create this.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#248

Post by moussess »

airstrike wrote: post #58

My read is that the US government originally wanted to try to force TikTok to restructure its relationship with China so it wouldn't be under control of the party, either by leaving the country or more likely selling to a US-friendly owner. This was the argument when Trump toyed with the idea during his first mandate. Occam's Razor suggests this was due to both a matter of national security from the perspective of th…

Great analysis! This comment should be the top post

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#249

Post by airstrike »

fatfox wrote: post #178

So to put it bluntly, sweet talking a president-elect can overturn a Supreme Court decision? Interesting political culture.

Hardly. A delay on the ban isn't tantamount to undoing the Supreme Court's decision.

It's good to be precise with terminology and facts, especially in legal matters.

Re: TikTok says it is restoring service for U.S. users

#250

Post by jjeaff »

lm28469 wrote: post #215
hbarka wrote: post #196

“Congressman Michael McCaul (R-TX), the author of the bill to ban TikTok, owns hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock in Meta, one of TikTok's chief rivals. Senator Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) bought up to $50,000 worth of Meta stock last January before voting to ban TikTok in April." Exhibit 1. https://www.capitoltrades.com/issuers/431610?page=2

To be fair they're all inside trading and most of them are corrupt. Time to wake up America

they aren't all corrupt. and for those that are insider trading, few are beating the market.
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