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Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

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Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#241

Post by endtime »

goochphd wrote: post #145
bradley13 wrote: post #59

I once applied for a job that precisely matched my qualifications. It was crazy - the job description could have been written by someone looking at my CV. I didn't even get an interview. Likely no one did. It wasn't a ghost job, though. It was a position created for a someone they wanted to hire. Being a public institution, they were required to advertise positions. That didn't mean that they actually wanted any of t…

I once applied to a position like this. It was eerily similar to my background, and when I did a little digging I found that the group lead had even directly cited my research papers in his own research work. I applied on the site, reached out on LinkedIn to the group lead and the recruiter, and even was able to find emails for those two, which I also messaged as well. They didn't even bother to send me an automated…

When I last changed jobs, I started looking at the end of 2021. I was a staff SWE at Google, MS CS from Stanford, etc. - a good resume.

I also found myself applying into a black hole. But when I used second degree connections to get someone at the company to acknowledge I existed, everything started moving, and I ended up with great offers from both the companies I had applied in.

Sometimes there are ghost roles, but sometimes recruiting is inundated or disorganized and you just need an internal champion.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#242

Post by hwbehrens »

pylua wrote: post #70
xyst wrote: post #39

> The results show that policy-makers should be aware of such a practice as it causes significant job fatigue and distorts market signals. > distorts market signals This is a feature, not a bug. Wall Street analysts have been using job posts as a signal for years to measure company current and future performance. * positive signal: more job posts compared to previous quarter, so company must be healthy! Buy, Buy, Buy…

Are you suggesting that companies are committing FRAUD ?

From my reading (IANAL), there are three types of occupational fraud: asset misappropriation, corruption, and financial statement fraud. Since job posting are interpreted as a positive signal but are not (it seems) typically and explicitly included in formal financial statements, this wouldn't rise to the level of criminal fraud.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#243

Post by furyofantares »

indoordin0saur wrote: post #41
shmatt wrote: post #14

I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So…

Wait, this isn't clear to me. Are the interviewees citizens? So you're interviewing citizens to prove that there aren't any who can fill your jobs but even when they clearly could fill the job you don't hire them? Seems like the requirement of proving "there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job" is going to be near impossible for the government to enforce

After reading it a few times my understanding is this:

An H1B job holder applies for a green card. OP then must interview to prove the role can't be filled by a citizen. An interviewee knocks it out of the park, failing the check and so the green card application is denied. However the person holding the job is still legally allowed to work for 2-3 years in their H1B. So they're kept on for that long even though the check failed for the green card.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#244

Post by tartoran »

thrwaway_hn_alt wrote: post #158
oriel wrote: post #17

A question I've had on my mind for a while now, watching this progression of fake or poisoned jobs, and miles of automatic systems to navigate: At what point do people consider the well poisoned? Where they just check out and stop applying, to specific companies or in general, because its very very obvious that there isnt actually a valid hiring market at all. I ask this question, because I've already passed this thr…

I am in this position. In the last few months I've submitted dozens of job applications for positions where, as articulated by another commenter upthread, the person writing the JD could have been writing it based on my resume. 15+ YOE, interesting work, promotions with progression of responsibility and impact, deep experience working with executives on the business side, side projects, volunteering experience, I spe…

Are you kind enough to share what kind of entrepreneurial work you're focusing on? Is it tech related in any way?

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#245

Post by crdrost »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #220
shmatt wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law says I can’t submit the I-140 application, which I follow the law and I don’t submit it. As a people manager it’s a heartbreaking conversation to have - to tell a report their dream of staying beyond their visa is gone The law says every line manager needs to do their own industry pulse check every time an i-140 is submitted. And this is the only legal way to pulse check (advertise a ghost job). It would be m…

So… the interviewee doesn’t get the job even though they knocked it out of the park, and the H1B doesn’t get their visa because the other interviewee did well. Basically nobody wins, and the H1B person is out of a job in 2-3 years?

Yes, this is precisely what the comment thread is saying. Shmatt’s original post should shock you with its conclusion because everyone loses including shmatt.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#246

Post by xhkkffbf »

avgDev wrote: post #173
Lammy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already there with the monthly HN hiring threads. Not one of those companies over several years ever responded to me, even the ones where the listing felt tailor made for me, even the ones that literally said they respond to all applicants. They're a total waste of time lol

Seems like it would be beneficial to the community for someone to add some kind of a rating system for people posting in the HN hiring threads. I would expect at minimum to get a response. Internet has gone to shit. It used to be much easier to find genuine people on the internet. Now, it is all marketing non-sense and filled with get-rich types.

My thoughts exactly. I haven't really tried many of the HN monthly postings myself very often, but once in a while I see something irresistible. But they never respond. Or they have an auto responder which doesn't count in my book.

When one company never responded, I added a comment to their ad the next month saying as much. The poor guy had to make up something about a spam filter.

Some kind of rating system would be helpful.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#247

Post by hobs »

htrp wrote: post #238
lowercased wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Every recruiter on linkedin will swear blind that technology doesn't work like that, and they have to manually sort through and review hundreds of applications, and ATS don't just blindly trash/delete applications. But I can't believe your situation did not happen, and that similar things aren't happening regularly.

Sorry I should have clarified. The ATS doesn't kick out your resume automatically, it just fails to include you in the 25 top candidates that get forwarded on to the hiring manager. It was very sad to see that my resume didn't make it for a job description that I wrote based on my resume.

Yep, they love a giant database filled with candidates they will never check out.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#248

Post by mixmastamyk »

thrwaway_hn_alt wrote: post #158
oriel wrote: post #17

A question I've had on my mind for a while now, watching this progression of fake or poisoned jobs, and miles of automatic systems to navigate: At what point do people consider the well poisoned? Where they just check out and stop applying, to specific companies or in general, because its very very obvious that there isnt actually a valid hiring market at all. I ask this question, because I've already passed this thr…

I am in this position. In the last few months I've submitted dozens of job applications for positions where, as articulated by another commenter upthread, the person writing the JD could have been writing it based on my resume. 15+ YOE, interesting work, promotions with progression of responsibility and impact, deep experience working with executives on the business side, side projects, volunteering experience, I spe…

Similar. Time to reach out to your network.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#249

Post by e40 »

moomin wrote: post #32
shmatt wrote: post #14

I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So…

I think you've managed to explain why H1Bs shouldn't exist pretty convincingly.

I agree. I did hire someone on an H1B in the early 2010's and he was, to put it mildly, the perfect candidate for the job and I don't think I could have found anyone anywhere to do it. Someone else at the company was hired, into sales, and they were pretty good for the job (a Japanese person to service the Japanese market), but you could argue that citizen speakers of Japanese do exist and should have been given priority.

I would be happy if the H1B program was killed.

Re: Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

#250

Post by tossandthrow »

kazinator wrote: post #56
tossandthrow wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, you can't really use the pipeline a year after the fact. It is super embarrassing when a company heavily delayed gets back on an application.

That's where the ghosting comes in. If you're always ghosting, then you always have recent people to get back to, not months old. The pipeline isn't a lossless FIFO queue, in other words. People go in one end and are dropped out the other. In between are the recents you can call if a spot actually opens up.

Exactly, you don't build up a catalogue of people you can get back to.

Ie. this technique does not make sense - search for people on demand instead.

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