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A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

openai.com

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Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#241

Post by nitwit005 »

wrp wrote: post #202
Eisenstein wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is trivially easy to spot AI writing if you are familiar with it, but if it requires failing most of the class for turning in LLM generated material, I think we are going to find that abolishing graded homework is the only tenable solution. The student's job is not to do everything the teacher says, it is to get through schooling somewhat intact and ready for their future. The sad fact is that many things we were…

Does pedagogy have established and verified methodology that will result in a completely PHYSICALLY developed student, if only the student does the EXERCISE as prescribed? No, but we still see the value in physical activity to promote healthy development. > many things we were forced to do in school were not helpful at all I've never had to do push-ups since leaving school. It was a completely useless skill to spend…

Things like gym classes are often justified based on "teaching healthy habits". That doesn't appear to work. You did stop the pushups. So did I.

Which doesn't mean I'm against physical activities in school, but educationally, it does appear to be a failure.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#242

Post by globular-toast »

cmontella wrote: post #10
joshdavham wrote: post #4

I'm really curious to see where higher education will go now that we have LLM's. I imagine the bar will just keep getting higher and more will be able to taught in less time. Are there any students here who started uni just before LLM's took off and are now finishing their degrees? Have you noticed much change in how your classes are taught?

I teach at the university level, and I just expect more from my students. Instead of implementing data structures like we did when I was in school, something ChatGPT is very good at; my students are building systems, something ChatGPT has more trouble with. Instead of paper exams asking students "find the bug" or "implement a short function", they get a takehome exam where they have to write tests, integrate their pr…

University is supposed to be about dedicating one's life to learning and ultimately gaining brand new insights into the world. It's not supposed to be about training people to produce stuff in the exact same way everyone already produces stuff. Do you think this approach will help them come up with new stuff?

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#243

Post by devjab »

wcfrobert wrote: post #120

Lots of interesting debates in this thread. I think it is worth placing writing/coding tasks into two buckets. Are you producing? Or are you learning? For example, I have zero qualms about relying on AI at work to write progress reports and code up some scripts. I know I can do it myself but why would I? I spent many years in college learning to read and write and code. AI makes me at least 2x more efficient at my jo…

Our internal metrics show a decrease in productivity when more inexperienced developers use AI, and an increase when experienced developers with 10+ years use it. We see a decrease in code quality across experience levels which needs to be rectified across all experience levels but even with the time spent refactoring it’s still an increase in productivity. I think I should note that we don’t use these metrics for employee review in any way. The reason we have them is because they come with the DORA (eu regulation) compliance tool we use to monitor code-quality. They won’t be used for employee measurement while I work here. I don’t manage people, but I was brought in to help IT transition from startup to enterprise so set the direction with management confidence.

I’m a little worried about developers turning to LLMs instead of official documentation as the first thing they do. I still view LLMs as mostly being fancy auto-complete with some automation capabilities. I don’t think they are very good at teaching you things. Maybe they are better than Google programming, but the disadvantage LLMs have seem to be that our employees tend to trust the LLMs more than they would trust what they found on Google. I don’t see an issue with people using LLMs on fields they aren’t too experienced with yet however. We’ve already seen people start using different models to refine their answers, we’ve also seen an increase in internal libraries and automation in place of external tools. Which is what we want, again because we’re under some heavy EU regulations where even “safe” external dependencies are a bureaucratic nightmare.

I really do wonder what it’ll do to general education though. Seeing how terrible and great these tools can be from a field I’m an expert in.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#244

Post by azthecx »

nitwit005 wrote: post #241
wrp wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does pedagogy have established and verified methodology that will result in a completely PHYSICALLY developed student, if only the student does the EXERCISE as prescribed? No, but we still see the value in physical activity to promote healthy development. > many things we were forced to do in school were not helpful at all I've never had to do push-ups since leaving school. It was a completely useless skill to spend…

Things like gym classes are often justified based on "teaching healthy habits". That doesn't appear to work. You did stop the pushups. So did I. Which doesn't mean I'm against physical activities in school, but educationally, it does appear to be a failure.

But at the time it did contribute at least somewhat to your physical condition, I am not an expert, but physical condition indicators like VO2 max seem to be the best predictors of intelligence. We're all physical beings at the end of the day

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#245

Post by com2kid »

ssl-3 wrote: post #147
mattmanser wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does spectacular job with well trodden paths. Asked it to give me a map react control with points plotted and got something working in a jiffy. I was trying to get it write robot framework code earlier and it was remarkably terrible. I would point out an obvious problem, it would replace the code with something even more spectacularly wrong. When I pointed out the new error, it just gave me the exact same old code…

In my experience 4o is really good at ignoring user-provided corrections and insanely regurgitating the same code (and/or the same problems) over and over again. ChatGPT 4 does much better with corrections, as does Claude. 4o is a pox.

That 4o is often times worse that GPT 4 has been widely ignored. :/

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#246

Post by tugberkk »

In academia, I see academics using ChatGPT to write papers. They get help with definitions, they even give the related work PDFs to it and make it write the part. No one fact checks. Students; they use it to write reports, homeworks and code.

GPT may be good for learning, but not for total beginners. That is key. As many people stated here, it can be good for those with experience. Those without, should seek for those experienced people. Then, when they have the basics they can get help from GPT to go further.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#247

Post by guappa »

mav3ri3k wrote: post #166
wcfrobert wrote: post #120

Lots of interesting debates in this thread. I think it is worth placing writing/coding tasks into two buckets. Are you producing? Or are you learning? For example, I have zero qualms about relying on AI at work to write progress reports and code up some scripts. I know I can do it myself but why would I? I spent many years in college learning to read and write and code. AI makes me at least 2x more efficient at my jo…

A current 3rd year college student here. I really want LLMs to help me in learning but the success rate is 0. They often can not generate relatively trivial code When they do, they can not explain that code. For example, I was trying to learn socket programing in C. Claude generated the code, but when I stared asking about stuff, it regressed hard. Also, often the code is more complex than it needs to be. When learni…

Brace yourself, people who are going to come to tell you that it was all your fault are here!

I got bullied at a conference (I was in the audience) because when the speaker asked me, I said AI is useless for my job.

My suspicion is that these kind of people basically just write very simple things over and over and they have 0 knowledge of theory or how computers work. Also their code is probably garbage but it sort-of works for the most common cases and they think that's completely normal for code.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#248

Post by brtkdotse »

Moru wrote: post #124
brtkdotse wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I refused to learn geography because we had map applications Which is ironic, because geography isn’t about memorizing maps

Funny you should say that. In Sweden, to get good grades in English you have to learn lots of facts about UK, like population, name of kings and so on. What does that have to do with english? It's spoken in many other countries too. And those facts change, the answers weren't even up to date now...

That’s odd. Outside of reading comprehension assignments I never had any fact memorization as part of any language course.

Perhaps they changed the curriculum since the 90s

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#249

Post by guappa »

strken wrote: post #199
wcfrobert wrote: post #120

Lots of interesting debates in this thread. I think it is worth placing writing/coding tasks into two buckets. Are you producing? Or are you learning? For example, I have zero qualms about relying on AI at work to write progress reports and code up some scripts. I know I can do it myself but why would I? I spent many years in college learning to read and write and code. AI makes me at least 2x more efficient at my jo…

How long are your progress reports? Mine are a one sentence message like "Hey, we've got a fix for the user profile bug, but we can't deploy it for an hour minimum because we've found an edge case to do with where the account signed up from" and I'm not sure where the AI comes in.

AI comes to write it 10x longer so you pretend you worked a lot and think the reader can't realise your report is just meaningless words because you never read anything yourself.

Re: A Student's Guide to Writing with ChatGPT

#250

Post by guappa »

booleandilemma wrote: post #123
wcfrobert wrote: post #120

Lots of interesting debates in this thread. I think it is worth placing writing/coding tasks into two buckets. Are you producing? Or are you learning? For example, I have zero qualms about relying on AI at work to write progress reports and code up some scripts. I know I can do it myself but why would I? I spent many years in college learning to read and write and code. AI makes me at least 2x more efficient at my jo…

I used to have dozens of phone numbers memorized. Once I got a cell phone I forgot everyone's number. I don't even know the phone number of my own mother. I don't want to lose my ability to think. I don't want to become intellectually dependent on AI in the slightest. I've been programming for over a decade without AI and I don't suddenly need it now.

I still remember the numbers I used as a kid.

Anyway now as an adult I have to remember a lot of pin codes.

* Door to home * Door to office * Door to gf's place * Bank card #1 * Bank card #2 * Bank card #3 * Phone #1 * Phone #2

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