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Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#241

Post by [deleted] »

cmonreally123 wrote: post #158
johnklos wrote: post #152

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

What's wrong with the Boeing case on needing to be rebooted. It doesn't seem much worse then memory leaks in missle guidance tracking systems that exceed flight time. We have finite resources, if the effort to correct is minimal what's the harm?

[deleted]

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#242

Post by throwaway2037 »

manwe150 wrote: post #172
cmonreally123 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? You increase cost for what? The Boeing example I believe related to this defect which occurs after 51 days of operation: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theregister.com/AMP/2020/04... This seems sane given that the planes don't operate for 51 days constantly (I'm not in aerospace so please correct me, it seems a reboot could occur with refueling without issue)

Usually planes are turned around too fast to be waiting for them to fully reboot every time they fuel. Typically they would prefer to keep them running for weeks at a time to minimize any issues or delays with extra steps when the clock is ticking and customers are waiting to board and fly

    > Usually planes are turned around too fast to be waiting for them to fully reboot every time they fuel.
To be clear, this affected the Boeing 787, a plane usually focused on long-haul between medium sized cities. It is incredibly rare to see a long-haul flight turned-around immediately. Normally, they have max two flights per days, and for longer routes, just one route per day. There was plenty of time to reboot. I don't think anyone was ever in danger.

Also, I am starting to grow tired of "anything Boeing does is bad" on HN in the last 6-12 months. The Boeing 787 was a huge hit, both technically and commercially. (I would say the same for the Airbus A350.) I certainly never worked anything as important or cool in my career. The endless booing from the HN peanut gallery adds little new and/or useful information to the discussion. Yes, I expect to be downvoted for this last paragraph.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#243

Post by InDubioProRubio »

eru wrote: post #180
johnklos wrote: post #152

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

> Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, [...] You can buy long lasting stuff just fine, if you are willing to pay. You can get eternal licenses (or an outright sale of rights), if you are willing to pay. It's all about trade-offs, and many people have priorities that are different from 'last as long as possible'. Eg many computers from the 1980s are still perfectly usable t…

Do they though, or are they just powerless consumers with no real choice, besides the colour of the wrapping?

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#244

Post by macspoofing »

johnklos wrote: post #152

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

> Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence

There is no such thing as "planned obsolescence". The trade-off is price vs quality. You can buy or source a hammer that will last you a lifetime, but will cost 10x the standard rate of hammer ... most people opt for the $20 option vs the $200 option, knowing full well, the $20 option may not last as long.

>Boeing airplanes that need to be rebooted if their computers are up for too long, an Ariane 5 blowing up because using the old thing should be "good enough", Microsoft Windows on ATMs and vending devices that literally can't not have pop-ups.

Couple things here:

1) None of those are examples of 'planned obsolescence'.

2) You really do not want to have every software application built the same way you build software for NASA. It would make software development incredibly expensive and slow.

3) I think everyone agrees that Boeing has major quality problems when compared with Airbus. But again, not an example of 'planned obsolescence', and it is not necessary for Boeing to build software like NASA builds software for the space shuttle, in order to produce quality airplanes (with quality software).

>if businesses had their way, would the Internet be run on Novell,

Huh? The software business is fully private. Most companies are not running on Novell because other businesses 'had their way' and competed.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#245

Post by InDubioProRubio »

johnklos wrote: post #152

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

> Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, [...]

We have that sort of- in open source by now. Basically the base implementation is free. But for more advanced extras you pay extra. Then the company providing the extras collapses and the extra becomes open source in one way or another.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#246

Post by _Algernon_ »

pvaldes wrote: post #133
KennyBlanken wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shhhh, this is HN, where just like on reddit, a bunch of computer programmers think they know more than a professional in said professional's field.

> this is HN, a bunch of computer programmers think they know more than And they are correct At least on the programming part, having in mind the huge advances in computers since the Voyager was built. Any professional computer programmer here knows more in their field than a programmer from 70's. A Voyager built today with similar resources would be much better, 100% guaranteed. Voyager 1 was a fantastic machine don…

I mean most developers today are js or python code monkeys.

Developers in the 80 invented every algorithm we can now use with a simple import statement and single line function call.

Your statement is probably true for a minority of developers today, but not "Any professional programmer here"

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#247

Post by macspoofing »

bluGill wrote: post #186
eru wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, [...] You can buy long lasting stuff just fine, if you are willing to pay. You can get eternal licenses (or an outright sale of rights), if you are willing to pay. It's all about trade-offs, and many people have priorities that are different from 'last as long as possible'. Eg many computers from the 1980s are still perfectly usable t…

You can't use your 25 year old phone for more than a snake game. most 2g towers have been turned off to make room for 4g and 5g.

That's not a good example of 'planned obsolescence'. 2G wasn't 'planned' to be obsolete, it was superseded by better technologies. Also because 2G is a *service* and not a product, it was a business decision to sunset the *service* since there is a maintenance cost to 2G *service*, as well as an opportunity cost in not being able to reserve 2G radio frequencies for 4G and 5G networks.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#248

Post by krige »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #226
eru wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, [...] You can buy long lasting stuff just fine, if you are willing to pay. You can get eternal licenses (or an outright sale of rights), if you are willing to pay. It's all about trade-offs, and many people have priorities that are different from 'last as long as possible'. Eg many computers from the 1980s are still perfectly usable t…

But that's stuff from 25 years ago. Try it, get a windows phone with version 8.1 from ebay now and see how far you get.

I still have one, as a backup. It works.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#249

Post by oniony »

goldfishgold wrote: post #199
II2II wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking about companies approaching 200 years old since I knew my point would be more difficult to make if I said 100 years (and because they had a launch window that comes up roughly once every 200 years, though I checked that out and it is 175 years). That said, you're right about my basically overlooking companies that weren't based in technology. Exxon is a cute example though. At one point, they owned Zil…

Fair enough. 100yr old companies are pretty easy to come up with, 200yr old companies are much harder.

You would pretty much have to turn to Japan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#250

Post by wvh »

veltas wrote: post #227
tapland wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Europe. Finalizing the shutdowns of 2G and 3G networks in Sweden during 2025.

Yup and in the UK a lot of our card payment boxes for car parks will stop working when 3G is shut down, and will be replaced with an app. People without phones need not apply!

One can see how quickly people could drop through the bottom of society once you can't afford to pay your phone or car bills. None of that technology comes cheap, not at least if you hit hard times for a while, and you will become a second class citizen.
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