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We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

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Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#241

Post by Bjartr »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #226

The biggest reason I have read for why machines do not work, or are not being used is due to lack of maintenance, and employees who are trained to do so. (and people quit all the time). Having worked at a fast food join (not McDonalds) much earlier in my life, any lacking maintenance and proper cleaning, especially if there has been a power outage will turn the the machine into a rapid incubator for bacteria that wil…

Part of the issue as I understand it, is that the machine is fairly opaque as to why some failures occur can appear somewhat "flaky" as a result. When this occurs during a cleaning cycle, the whole cycle is void and a new 4 hour cycle must be run.

If the machine was clear about communicating the issue, it would be fine. It's not and can require a technician to come out with a tool to both read the machine status in detail and tweak the machine in the necessary ways to stop it being flaky.

This would all be fine except for the fact that 1. Only technicians from the manufacturer are allowed to be used. 2. Those technicians are unreasonable expensive. 3. The company could make the machines easier to diagnose and repair, but don't because repair calls are lucrative 4. Third parties can, and have, made tools that do make the machines easier to diagnose and repair without the need for a technician, but cant legally sell these solutions because it involves circumventing a digital lock (DMCA violation) 5. McD corporate has an agreement with the manufacturer to maintain this status quo in return for a kickback

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#242

Post by Psyonic »

cj wrote: post #218
lukan wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But next time you might go somewhere else. Some people go there every day and they tell their friends - that sums up.

This summarizes my relationship with Chipotle. We have 1 location in my area. I go maybe once a month hoping for a decent experience, but every single time they are out of key ingredients (no chicken, no beans, no chips, etc). I really don’t understand how that can even happen at Chipotle where the entire menu consists of a grand total of (maybe) 10-15 core ingredients? I would go way more often if they simply weren’…

That’s interesting. I’ve gone to chipotle around once or twice a month for two decades now, and with the exception of their lemonades I’ve only had something unavailable maybe 3-4 times. Regional variation I guess.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#243

Post by Bjartr »

bombcar wrote: post #207
majormajor wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either the McDonalds by me is fairly lucky or this is far less common than the meme makes it out to be. It doesn't seem like good marketing - I hadn't had it in years but wanted to try a promo mcflurry a couple years ago, and wasn't expecting it to work, which make me wonder if I shouldn't even bother going. That's the opposite of what they'd want. But then I went, and have gone probably a couple dozen times since th…

The machines go into maintenance if not cleaned in time. Smart franchises clean the machine in the morning or after closing each day so it “never runs out”. Just like smart airlines always reboot the plane regularly instead of learning the 787 has to be rebooted every 56 day.

> Smart franchises clean the machine in the morning or after closing each day so it “never runs out”.

And when they arrive in the morning to a failed cleaning run and an opaque error code they get to pick between first calling an expensive technician to spend just a few minutes with a tool only they have to read a more detailed error and change settings. Or they can cross their fingers and hope it's not a persistent issue. Either way it's another four hour checking cycle before it's ready.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#244

Post by fHr »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #226

The biggest reason I have read for why machines do not work, or are not being used is due to lack of maintenance, and employees who are trained to do so. (and people quit all the time). Having worked at a fast food join (not McDonalds) much earlier in my life, any lacking maintenance and proper cleaning, especially if there has been a power outage will turn the the machine into a rapid incubator for bacteria that wil…

people who get angry at the underpaid employees are the worst, treat them like human beings please

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#245

Post by cj »

Psyonic wrote: post #242
cj wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This summarizes my relationship with Chipotle. We have 1 location in my area. I go maybe once a month hoping for a decent experience, but every single time they are out of key ingredients (no chicken, no beans, no chips, etc). I really don’t understand how that can even happen at Chipotle where the entire menu consists of a grand total of (maybe) 10-15 core ingredients? I would go way more often if they simply weren’…

That’s interesting. I’ve gone to chipotle around once or twice a month for two decades now, and with the exception of their lemonades I’ve only had something unavailable maybe 3-4 times. Regional variation I guess.

Check out r/chipotle - maybe it’s an echo chamber there but it’s a major problem with mobile orders where you don't have an opportunity to sub an ingredient that’s out of stock. Depending on the store, chipotle mobile orders are a “fun” gamble - chipotle needs to fix quality standards across stores at least in my region!

Chipotle is one of the very few businesses I have ever left a google review for because the complaint seems extremely simple to fix. Just stock your store and hire enough people to prep the food!

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#246

Post by SoftTalker »

newsclues wrote: post #211
minitoar wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything stopping a franchise from putting 2? I think it can’t be required because they have to meet some sort of smallest viable footprint.

Space is a premium because much of their real estate is high traffic and cost, so every square foot is used

Most of the sales at a McDonalds are via the drive-thru. Inside sales have dropped so low that many stores don't even staff the front counter, you have to enter your own order at a kiosk in the lobby or use their mobile app.

I think your conjecture was correct 20 years ago but not at store with the latest remodels. Counter sales and inside dining are an afterthought.

The ice cream machines (all restaurant equipment, really) is very expensive and you generally don't buy more than you will actually use.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#247

Post by oorza »

Bjartr wrote: post #241
ThinkBeat wrote: post #226

The biggest reason I have read for why machines do not work, or are not being used is due to lack of maintenance, and employees who are trained to do so. (and people quit all the time). Having worked at a fast food join (not McDonalds) much earlier in my life, any lacking maintenance and proper cleaning, especially if there has been a power outage will turn the the machine into a rapid incubator for bacteria that wil…

Part of the issue as I understand it, is that the machine is fairly opaque as to why some failures occur can appear somewhat "flaky" as a result. When this occurs during a cleaning cycle, the whole cycle is void and a new 4 hour cycle must be run. If the machine was clear about communicating the issue, it would be fine. It's not and can require a technician to come out with a tool to both read the machine status in d…

I worked at a McD's franchise 20 years ago that had hired a "retired" ice cream machine guy to work for the franchise full time. With only a half dozen stores, he would still almost always be too busy to make it to our store the same day and sometimes we'd have to wait as long as 3-4 days. Flaky does not even begin to describe how awful those machines are.

I'm not sure if having that guy employed by the franchise was technically kosher or not with McDonald's, but you have to imagine the smart franchises all do this.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#248

Post by SoftTalker »

joezydeco wrote: post #234
MikeTheGreat wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask why it takes / took 45 minutes? That feels like a lot to clean one machine. Was that all 'active' time or was there a 'put things in the dishwasher / autoclave and let it sterilize for X minutes?' Were there a lot of separate parts to wash? Now I'm curious :)

I did this for a year and a half in high school. The McD procedure involves draining the barrel, flushing it with water, then disassembling each barrel assembly and removing every o-ring and gasket. https://youtu.be/SaYTx7qNJU4?si=Y2ZjWHQJHiKQfAFh Each part is washed in detergent, rinsed, and sanitized. Rings and gaskets are relubricated with food safe petroleum jelly, then everything is reassembled. Forget one ring…

Basically right, where I worked the parts were set in trays to air-dry overnight. There was a spot on the tray for each part, o-ring, and gasket so you could easily see if any were missing.

The machines were reassembled the next morning. So the closers only had to break them down, wash, and sanitize.

Once a week any dairy mix left in the machine was discarded, this "breaks the cycle" of any bacteria in the mix. So on that night, you tried to let the machines run very low to minimize waste.

It's sort of complicated the first few times but it becomes very routine. Like everything at McDonalds, there is a detailed step-by-step written procedure on how to do it.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#249

Post by oorza »

wjnc wrote: post #240
trollbridge wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Dairy Queen, Wendy’s, and McDonald’s outside of the U.S. don’t have this problem. Somehow I doubt DQ employees are paid better or are better trained or more diligent about regular maintenance. The difference is they don’t have a machine designed to require expensive maintenance visits with a DRM lockout to retard attempts to maintain it by normal restaurant/HVAC maintenance contractors.

My stint as a EU McD worker did give me a feel of how well scripted low skill labour can feel like pleasant work. I didn’t appreciate it at the time but it was six sigma checklist everything. There is a magic to smooth operation. In all my other jobs (dishwasher, mechanic, cleaner and now 20 yrs in insurance) nobody came close to the McD smoothness of operations. I hope I bring some of this smoothness to the people w…

I had the same experience working at one in US from ages 15-19.

The thing that stands out about that job that makes it unique in my perspective is decision-making. Every other job, from dishwasher in a sit down restaurant to engineering team lead, works best when I make good decisions and my coworkers all do too. Everything runs most smoothly when everyone is on their game and consistently making the right choices.

At McDonald's, everything ran most smoothly when no one made any decisions at all.

Their system was literally that good. No one else's has ever come close. And you're right that there's a weird freedom and pleasantness to that: your job requires literally zero brain power most of the time and your sole responsibility is to keep up with the person behind you and not overwhelm the person in front of you, which isn't usually something you worry about. So all that energy every other job has got from me, I still had (and so did everyone else) which made it the most social, most fun workplace too.

Re: We can now fix McDonald's ice cream machines

#250

Post by timcobb »

fHr wrote: post #244
ThinkBeat wrote: post #226

The biggest reason I have read for why machines do not work, or are not being used is due to lack of maintenance, and employees who are trained to do so. (and people quit all the time). Having worked at a fast food join (not McDonalds) much earlier in my life, any lacking maintenance and proper cleaning, especially if there has been a power outage will turn the the machine into a rapid incubator for bacteria that wil…

people who get angry at the underpaid employees are the worst, treat them like human beings please

Some people have internalized that underpaid employees get what they deserve (i.e. they're not actually underpaid at all) and I believe that's one of the factors that leads to the abuse.
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