241–250 of 314 posts
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That's fine, but we would like to see the orders he received and the evidence. This patch is outrageous because of the lack of transparency, not the patch itself if there's a good reason for it. Linus and Greg appear to be not only not posting a reason, but trying to keep the reason secret.
It's pretty obvious that it's due to sanctions, but they don't want to say it.
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>Huawei is under same level of sanctions is it? the actual specifics of the sanctions matter, I don't think any of the US sanctions would prevent them from participating in kernel programming.
Would you happen to know which specific sanctions text relates to kernel programming?
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People in Russia weren't born three years ago and can remember things. When the US illegally invaded and devastated Iraq in 2003 under the fake pretense of WMD weapons, no sanctions against the US from the other Western countries followed. And of course the US didn't sanction itself and the American people reelected the president who started that war instead of surrendering him to the International Criminal Court. So…
And people in Russia's neighboring countries also remember maany things.
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It's open source, any exploit introduced by a maintainer is self-documenting. Provide a single example for the Linux kernel, please.
I would argue nobody needs to provide an example. IMO, we can assume an action to be taken if: 1. The mechanisms for its existence exist 2. There is motivation of a large enough scale 3. The scale of the actors is large enough The Linux kernel is very large, and nation-states like Russia are also very large. There is a very high motivation for a backdoor to exist for the Russian government. And the mechanisms are cer…
> the Linux kernel kind of sort of belongs to the West,
I don't agree.
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Do sanctions ever actually work as intended? To this casual bystander it seems like they usually hurt innocent citizens far more than the leaders of the usually authoritarion regime that it targets.
> innocent citizens Do you not think that at least 50% of all people in Russia would vote for Putin or his affiliates (even if the elections weren't falsified)? Therefore most people in Russia are certainly not innocent.
Nor are Americans, by this standard - what we've done directly in Syria & Iraq is quite bad and enjoyed substantial popular support.
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It's pretty obvious that it's due to sanctions, but they don't want to say it.
But if that's the case, why don't they?
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I would argue nobody needs to provide an example. IMO, we can assume an action to be taken if: 1. The mechanisms for its existence exist 2. There is motivation of a large enough scale 3. The scale of the actors is large enough The Linux kernel is very large, and nation-states like Russia are also very large. There is a very high motivation for a backdoor to exist for the Russian government. And the mechanisms are cer…
The world is a chaotic and complicated place, you cannot deductively prove things about the world in the manner you are trying. I do not support further securitization based on this style of reasoning. I think we lose more than we gain. If I should assume my OS already contains many exploits, it seems like the risk from Russians is just that they read the source code carefully. > the Linux kernel kind of sort of belo…
For the same reason, I can be highly confident there is at least one person stealing office supplies at Amazon. And I can be highly confident there are some examples of data theft in automobiles. I just use the same principles as above.
> I don't agree.
Okay. How?
The vast majority of Kernel developers are from the West and live in the West. The kernel was created in the West. Management is in the West. And the majority of large tech companies are Western, so probably the majority of Kernel users are also in the West.
Therefore, the West has a majority control over the kernel, and they have a huge incentive to "protect" it to how they define that. That's that, and we can tell this is the case because it wasn't Russia banning western devs from kernel development, was it?
Also: on the topic of chaos, this is why the "motivation" bullet point exists. If there's no motivation, I can't be sure, due to chaos. Chaos means even things that should happen may not. Motivation, particularly of the financial variety, cuts through the chaos of humanity. I am very confident in asserting that and I think pretty much all of history supports that.
If you scroll down on the thread linked, someone mentions the reason isn't that the developers are Russian, but because their employers in Russia are sanctioned companies. I don't know if that's accurate, but seems feasible. If so I'm 100% behind it. It'd be nice to know the exact reasoning for this, rather than just see a commit without any context of why they're being removed. I'm pretty sure we'll know in due time…
I think it's more likely that everyone will forget in a few days and we will never know. Maybe there will be few more random bans. I highly doubt anyone banned will even try to send "sufficient documentation". The wording is as vague and arbitrary as it gets, and the underlying tone sounds to me not like "we have such and such requirements", but like "some Russian-sounding names are banned, but we still have to demon…
That's not true! There are still many Russian maintainers in the kernel, but they are not based in Russia. They only banned individuals, based in Russia, who are employed by sanctioned companies.
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I think it's more likely that everyone will forget in a few days and we will never know. Maybe there will be few more random bans. I highly doubt anyone banned will even try to send "sufficient documentation". The wording is as vague and arbitrary as it gets, and the underlying tone sounds to me not like "we have such and such requirements", but like "some Russian-sounding names are banned, but we still have to demon…
> "some Russian-sounding names are banned, but we still have to demonstrate there is a due process". That's not true! There are still many Russian maintainers in the kernel, but they are not based in Russia. They only banned individuals, based in Russia, who are employed by sanctioned companies.
They just happened to still use their older .ru email in the MAINTAINERS file.