Something like https://sinatrarb.com/ for rust would be cool.
Axum + minijinja is quite close to this I would say. Been using it for a little while and I am very happy so far.
Rust needs a web framework
241–250 of 395 posts
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am a fan of Rust for systems programming, but so many people are using Rust for things that are nothing even remotely close to systems programming. So many projects you see being written (or rewritten) in Rust are projects where I just think 'wait, why can't this just have a GC'? And then you look at the code base, and it's all Arc >s, and you can't help at marvel at this, since that's just GC, so what's the benefi…
> What people fall in love with is the rigorous static typing, the Option monad, the exhaustive enums (which are just sum types in disguise), the traits (type classes in disguise), the borrow checker (a half-way house to immutability) etc. I feel like I say this every time this sort of discussion comes up, but I still think that there's a space for a higher-level language with most of what people like from Rust that…
There definitely is some void!
I gladly take the whole rust "package" because overall it's just so good, at least for opensource / hobby stuff. I wish there was an equivalent but with GC, to use for work.
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am a fan of Rust for systems programming, but so many people are using Rust for things that are nothing even remotely close to systems programming. So many projects you see being written (or rewritten) in Rust are projects where I just think 'wait, why can't this just have a GC'? And then you look at the code base, and it's all Arc >s, and you can't help at marvel at this, since that's just GC, so what's the benefi…
> What people fall in love with is the rigorous static typing, the Option monad, the exhaustive enums (which are just sum types in disguise), the traits (type classes in disguise), the borrow checker (a half-way house to immutability) etc. I feel like I say this every time this sort of discussion comes up, but I still think that there's a space for a higher-level language with most of what people like from Rust that…
> How did a language that's supposed to be so hard get popular to the point where people view its fans as pushing it aggressively?
I think Rust is especially popular with a demographic that was not previously exposed to lower level programming. Meaning younger programmers (because modern languages are higher level) and web centric programmers (because we're in a boom of web development).
This demographic had a hard time entering systems programming, because while fascinating, its exposure is lower (less jobs, less projects), and entry cost (learning C, or C++Rust made systems programming more accessible, and systems programming, just as anything related to how things work under the hood, is fascinating.
Now Rust is hard, as you noted, but not hard in the same sense than C is hard.
C is hard because low level stuff bites you immediately. You can't quite easily just use a random library in C if you don't understand your build system, linkage, etc. If you mess up in C, the compiler will not tell you either, you will have to debug your way out of it.
Rust is different, in the sense that its difficulty is limited to the compiler saying "nope". If you can get the compiler to say "yep", then you're 99.9% of the time safe. Now getting that compiler to say "yep" may take time, indeed, but all in all you most often can just get away with sprinkling unwraps, clones and Arcs all over the place until it works.
In that sense, I think Rusts popularity essentially lies in the fact that it is a way to do low level stuff with a barrier of entry limited to being stubborn in learning it.
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#244I wouldn't mind a Rust based web framework that provides the same features as the base Servlet API. Everything else should be an optional library. When I look into it the rabbit hole goes too deep. It hasn't been immediately clear what the templating looks like. Usually they start talking about some "Reactive" framework, features I don't want and I lose interest. Afterwards, I realize that I'm already satisfied with…
just out of curiosity: why commons db connection pooling instead of hikari? i've only ever used the latter.
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#245> I like to make silly things, and I also like to put in minimal effort for those silly things. I also like to make things in Rust… I think this part is perhaps the silliest part of a very silly article. If you really like to put in a minimal effort then why on earth would you use Rust? If you want efficiency, memory management and a compiled modern language just use Go. Then you won’t even need anything but the stan…
I am a fan of Rust for systems programming, but so many people are using Rust for things that are nothing even remotely close to systems programming. So many projects you see being written (or rewritten) in Rust are projects where I just think 'wait, why can't this just have a GC'? And then you look at the code base, and it's all Arc >s, and you can't help at marvel at this, since that's just GC, so what's the benefi…
> - Phoenix on Elixir! Yes, it's not quite so blazing fast
As someone running a fairly cpu heavy SAAS application for users who literally dog pile our whatsapp support forums if it goes down for even a second, Phoenix is pretty damn fast in production. I won't claim its as fast as rust but it will run circles around ruby or python and for IO bound tasks, competes perfectly fine with go. Its never been a bottleneck (database is another story)
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#246So strange reading all the comments here saying that Rust is not a language for "lazy developers". I'm an incredibly lazy developer and Rust only makes me lazier. I can pretty much turn off the part of my brain that deals with "programming language" stuff and put all that energy towards the part of my brain that deals with "building stuff" whenever I write code in Rust, because I have a high level of confidence that…
> I'm an incredibly lazy developer and Rust only makes me lazier You can't be that lazy, or you would use a language that doesn't force you to do memory management. > Rust is the only language where I can open something like Notepad without an LSP or highlighting This is a very weird and arbitrary qualifier that seems designed to filter out other languages with type systems.
Laziness with a long view: I probably won't have to rewrite it, and if I do, it will be easy. I can write code like that in Python or something, but I have to be on my best behavior to do so and that's not lazy.
Using notepad for code is just masochistism though
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am a fan of Rust for systems programming, but so many people are using Rust for things that are nothing even remotely close to systems programming. So many projects you see being written (or rewritten) in Rust are projects where I just think 'wait, why can't this just have a GC'? And then you look at the code base, and it's all Arc >s, and you can't help at marvel at this, since that's just GC, so what's the benefi…
> that are nothing even remotely close to systems programming This is unnecessary gatekeeping. It also shows your lack of perspective. Or, rather, your lack of imagining other perspectives, probably. Sure, rust is primarily a language aimed at systems programming. But it also is so much more (and also a cult). * Its type system is excellent. Especially the lack of a "null". Even if, like me, you're fine with a GC, th…
I agree with you on the borrow checker... Part if me wants a simplified(distilled?) Rust ... All of the good stuff, but remove the bad... Not sure how that looks but it is something I know I want
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#248> I like to make silly things, and I also like to put in minimal effort for those silly things. I also like to make things in Rust… I think this part is perhaps the silliest part of a very silly article. If you really like to put in a minimal effort then why on earth would you use Rust? If you want efficiency, memory management and a compiled modern language just use Go. Then you won’t even need anything but the stan…
I am a fan of Rust for systems programming, but so many people are using Rust for things that are nothing even remotely close to systems programming. So many projects you see being written (or rewritten) in Rust are projects where I just think 'wait, why can't this just have a GC'? And then you look at the code base, and it's all Arc >s, and you can't help at marvel at this, since that's just GC, so what's the benefi…
Is Rust only for "systems programming"?
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am a fan of Rust for systems programming, but so many people are using Rust for things that are nothing even remotely close to systems programming. So many projects you see being written (or rewritten) in Rust are projects where I just think 'wait, why can't this just have a GC'? And then you look at the code base, and it's all Arc >s, and you can't help at marvel at this, since that's just GC, so what's the benefi…
> What people fall in love with is the rigorous static typing, the Option monad, the exhaustive enums (which are just sum types in disguise), the traits (type classes in disguise), the borrow checker (a half-way house to immutability) etc. I feel like I say this every time this sort of discussion comes up, but I still think that there's a space for a higher-level language with most of what people like from Rust that…
One issue is that with GC, you lose prompt finalization of resources. A lot of code is written with this assumption in mind (e.g., file buffers are flushed if the last reference to the file is dropped—which is arguable incorrect due to the lack of error checking). And the borrow checker is the only thing that keeps everything from being mutable in place in Rust today. Having GC would open the possibility for alternatives to the borrow checker without compromising memory safety, but even Pony-style reference capabilities probably won't lead to a language where abstractions compose much more easily than in Rust today.
Maybe a language with a similar syntax, traits, monomorphization, and macros would still be interesting to many people? Would people prefer traits and macros over ad-hoc polymorphism (in the style of C++, which could subsume the macro use cases, too)?
Re: Rust needs a web framework
#250Basically, the author wants Spring Boot for Rust