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NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

simonwillison.net

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Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#241

Post by felipeerias »

rjh29 wrote: post #39
felipeerias wrote: post #31

Personally, I would love to try this for learning languages. Some people absorb information far easier when they hear it as part of a conversation. Perhaps it would be possible to use this technique to break down study materials into simple 10-minute chunks that discuss a chapter or a concept at a time.

Languages are hard. Everybody wants to learn them via an app or 10 minutes a day but realistically it's 3-4 hours a day for a year.

I am already doing that. What I meant is that there are specific topics, grammar, vocabulary, etc. that I would probably remember better if I also got them in the form of a conversation between two knowledgeable people.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#242

Post by klabb3 »

squigz wrote: post #182
djur wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of feels like looking at an overflowing landfill and thinking "I wonder if we can invent a robot that just generates new trash directly into the landfill".

This holier than thou attitude that crops up in these threads is so annoying, as if people wanting to casually enjoy a mediocre podcast or radio show on the 1 hour commute to their shitty job is a crime.

I don’t think anyone cares about other people’s cheap pleasures. What people do care about is the displacement of quality and craft. For instance, you could say the same thing about the state of the web - say when searching for recipes. Maybe some people like the ads, the consent forms, the backstories? Why so purist? Isn’t it nice with a bit of scrolling and getting in the mood for cooking with a bit of SEO?

Defending craftsmen and attention to detail is not just about purism or gatekeeping. I appreciate people who care, even in fields I don’t personally care about (yet?). The professor who annoyingly insists on making sure every student “really gets it”, or the woodworker who is adamant about what joints are superior, or the kernel hacker who maintains rigor in face of hundreds of feature requests. The integrity of professionals can make or break institutions.

With AI reducing the effort to create garbage to the point of commoditization, people have a right, and arguably even an obligation, to be concerned. Remember, tech doesn’t follow potential, it follows incentive.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#243

Post by bbor »

andrepd wrote: post #48
bbor wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I totally get people’s criticisms that the podcasts aren’t quite human-expert-level in terms of symbolic reasoning, but this still blows my mind. The intuitive skill these show, not to mention the ability to accurately (again, if shallowly) parse and transform huge bodies of content in seconds is absolutely scary, IMO. I’d feed it the Singularity paper, but I’m not sure I need that extra boost of anxiety these d…

This isn't "quite expert-level in terms of symbolic reasoning" in the same way as a soapbox isn't "quite a formula 1"

We accidentally invented general models that can coherently muse about the philosophical beliefs of Gilles Deleuze at length, and accurately, based on two full books that they summarized. You can be cynical until your dying day, that’s your right — but I highly recommend letting that fact be a little bit impressive, someday. There’s no way you live through any event that’s more historically significant, other than perhaps an apocalypse or two.

In other words: soapbox is presumably some sort of toy car that goes 15mph, and formula 1 goes up above 150mph at least (as you can tell, I’m not a car guy). If you have any actual scientific argument as to why a model that can score 90-100 on a typical IQ test has only 1/10th the symbolic reasoning skills of a human, I’d love to eat my words! Maybe on some special highly iterative, deliberation-based task?

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#244

Post by [deleted] »

richardw wrote: post #45
timoth3y wrote: post #21

NotebookLM's is incredibly good at generating the affect and structure of a quality podcast. This is in-line with all art, music, and video created by LMM at the moment. They are imitating a structure and affect, the quality of the content is largely irrelevant. I think the interesting thing is that most people don't really care, and AI is not to blame for that. Most books published today have the affect of a book, b…

I think and hope that you're wrong. There's always been cheese, and there's a lot of it now. But there is still a market for top-notch insight. For example, Perun. This guy delivers an hourlong presentation on (mostly) the Ukraine-Russia war and its pure quality. Insights, humour, excellent delivery, from what seems to be a military-focused economist/analyst/consultant. We're a while away from some bot taking this ki…

[deleted]

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#245

Post by weberer »

If you get a "Service unavailable" message when trying it out, it means you are region locked because you're in the EU. Clear your cookies and use an American VPN to access it. Its very annoying, but at least the workaround isn't too much of a headache. Yet.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#246

Post by grvdrm »

I wrote a blog/newsletter/post/whatever about my experience. Absolutely experienced the wow factor as well.

What was more interesting was the word-for-word accuracy.

I fed all of my posts year-to-date into NotebookLM and had it generate the podcast. The affect/structure was awesome.

But I noticed some inaccuracies in the words. They completed botched the theme of at least one of my posts and quite literally misinformed in a few other spots. Without context, someone new to my posts and listening to the podcast would have no idea.

So, absolutely - wow factor. But still need content validation on top. Don't think any of you are surprised but felt it was worth emphasizing.

https://theteardown.substack.com/p/ai-expressing-empathy-fre...

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#247

Post by oddthink »

timoth3y wrote: post #21

NotebookLM's is incredibly good at generating the affect and structure of a quality podcast. This is in-line with all art, music, and video created by LMM at the moment. They are imitating a structure and affect, the quality of the content is largely irrelevant. I think the interesting thing is that most people don't really care, and AI is not to blame for that. Most books published today have the affect of a book, b…

It goes way too far, IMHO.

It ends up sounding like a smarmy Sunday-morning talk show conversation, with over-exaggerated affect and no content.

So far I've just fed it technical papers, which may be part of the problem, but what I got back was, "Gosh, imagine if a recommender system really understood us? Wow, that would be fantastic, wouldn't it?"

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#248

Post by grugagag »

richardw wrote: post #108
authorfly wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different strokes for different folks... We all seek different kinds of quality; I don't find Peruns videos to have any quality except volume. He reads bullet points he has prepared, and makes predictable dad jokes in monotone, re-uses and reruns the same points, icons, slides, etc. Just personally, I find it really samey and some of the reporting has been delayed so much it's entirely detached from the ground by the…

I like a range of the Ukraine coverage. From stuff that comes in fast to the weekly roundup-with-analysis. E.g. Suchomimus has his own humour and angle on things, but if you don’t have a unique sense of humour or delivery then it’s easier for an AI to replace you. Give it a year or three, up to the minute AI generated sitrep pulling in related media clips and adding commentary…not that hard to imagine.

> Give it a year or three, up to the minute AI generated sitrep pulling in related media clips and adding commentary…not that hard to imagine.

But why? Isn’t there enough content generated by humans? As a tool of research AI is great in helping people do whatever they do but having that automated away generating content by itself is next to trash in my book, pure waste. Just like unsolicited pamphlets thrown at your door you pick up in the morning to throw in the bin. Pure waste.

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#249

Post by vid »

Podcasts can be a kind of social experience that's akin to morning talk show hosts, the actual content can be quite low. A real potential of this is the combination of the podcaster's intent and the listener's context. Between the two, podcasts can be generated personalized to each individual listener, while still keeping it a more passive medium and the podcasters can retain their personality in the synthetic form. This has really huge potential for those moments where you want to learn, want some personality and bias, but don't want ¾ of the podcast to be for a general audience. It's an interesting hybrid of broad and narrowcasting. I think by the time it's in the wild, it won't really be a podcast though, because direct q&a will be an option (albeit with the usual drawbacks of LLMs).

Re: NotebookLM's automatically generated podcasts are surprisingly effective

#250

Post by llmfan »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #86
peutetre wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why would I buy those books or listen to those podcasts that are synthetic affectations of no substance?

I wouldn't read an AI-generated book (except maybe once as a curiosity), but I would definitely listen to AI-generated music if it were good enough. Reading a book is a time investment so I want it to convey the thoughts of another human being, otherwise it would feel like wasting my time. Listening to music, on the other hand, often is something that I do while I exercise, to keep a brisk pace and not get bored. As…

LLMs are already better than books for exploring some ideas. But in conversation form.

Until we get better versions of o1 that can generate insights over days and then communicate them in book form the loss of interactivity and personalisation makes LLM books pointless.

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