Live data from Hacker News

A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

discuss.python.org

241–250 of 289 posts

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but where do you think the term comes from? It didn't spawn into common use out of nowhere. And I'll say - I don't think it matters. It's all stupid bullshit in my eyes. But if it doesn't matter, which it doesn't, then main shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion.

>Ok but where do you think the term comes from? It didn't spawn into common use out of nowhere. From mastering: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio) >And I'll say - I don't think it matters. It's all stupid bullshit in my eyes. But if it doesn't matter, which it doesn't, then main shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion. And I'll say - I don't think it matters. It's all stupid bullshit in my eyes. But if i…

Okay I'm not the one who advocated to change master. That's already been done. Now we have people advocating to change BACK to master.

Also really? Audio mastering? And which, pray tell, do you believe came first?

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some people changing master -> main isn't a nothing burger, it's actively harmful. I constantly have pain — years after the Summer of Floyd — from repos I follow which change the name of their master branch from ‘master’ to ‘main,’ which breaks all sorts of tooling, sometimes silently (my local copies stay on ‘master,’ and never get updates), sometimes noisily. That switching is actively harmful. > Some people…

Okay but if it's not your project then, to you, it should be a nothing burger. > but it is the correct name for the master version Why? Literally why? Main means the exact same thing, it's equally correct. Why choose THIS hill to die on? This is what I'm talking about.

How is introducing a breaking change "a nothingburger", but resisting a breaking change "a hill to die on"?

It's a breaking change, requiring me to fix CI, local copies, scripts and so on. It really doesn't matter if you rename "master" to "main", or "main" to "GloriousLeaderXiJinping". Just don't, it's harmful because it's a breaking change for no reason.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, why not use full range voting (0-100) instead? Wouldn't it extract more information?

An arguable disadvantage of full range voting is that it overweights people who vote binary 0/100 and underweights people who vote 80-100. Since the former is almost always strategically advantaged, it seems fairer to just cut out the middle.

The very simple fix is there is to auto-scale everyone's scores into weights (percentages that add to 100).

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ok but where do you think the term comes from? It didn't spawn into common use out of nowhere. From mastering: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio) >And I'll say - I don't think it matters. It's all stupid bullshit in my eyes. But if it doesn't matter, which it doesn't, then main shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion. And I'll say - I don't think it matters. It's all stupid bullshit in my eyes. But if i…

Okay I'm not the one who advocated to change master. That's already been done. Now we have people advocating to change BACK to master. Also really? Audio mastering? And which, pray tell, do you believe came first?

>Okay I'm not the one who advocated to change master. That's already been done. Now we have people advocating to change BACK to master.

I don't believe that is what's being argued.

>Also really? Audio mastering?

Yes, audio mastering. The developer that created the concept of master branches in git specifically outlined his influence was from the concept of audio mastering (master recordings) [0].

>And which, pray tell, do you believe came first?

Audio mastering came before git master branches.

[0] https://archive.is/JB9Y8

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think a single soul implied they were monsters. There's nothing wrong with having your branch named "master" if, coincidently, that's what you have. It takes no effort to find arguments such as https://medium.com/let-s-begin/how-to-rename-your-master-bra... . Github themselves tried to push the change on people, and reporting on the issue used phrasing describing the original choice as "no longer appropriat…

[flagged]

> I don't think you actually read that link. Or maybe you're hoping I don't.... The first part is just true - it's not up for debate.

You asked me to demonstrate that people make the argument, because you claimed that people don't make the argument. I showed you someone making the argument, and you have responded by reinforcing that argument.

The claim is that this "powerful implication[s] of racial supremacy" is harmful - we know this because the author is arguing that the change affirmatively should be made, and there is no reason to make the change without an appeal to such harm. But there is no attempt to explain how such harm would actually arise from simply using the terms as technical jargon. One might reasonably infer that the author is somehow claiming that such terminology justifies or advocates for racial supremacy; but there is no attempt to reason through that claim.

There is also no attempt to consider other potential implications of the term, nor the mindset which leads to this interpretation. Implication is only relevant in conjunction with inference, and these inferences are being drawn by clearly politically motivated people.

> Personally I think if you're a die-hard master-slave fan that's weird

Please stop coming back to this strawman. Again, a higher standard of discourse is expected here.

> Okay, and this bothers you why?

For reasons explicitly stated in my comment.

> Um, YOU do. Clearly you are

Again, a higher standard of discourse is expected here.

> YOU'RE an outsider asking python to change for YOU.

I did not ask for any change. I in fact criticized a change. Please stop trying to present change as non-change and vice-versa.

I am also not an outsider. I have been writing code in Python for about 20 years.

> "Doing nothing" IS NOT an apolitical stance.

Yes, it is. This, in your words, is "just true" and "not up for debate". But the fact that you would propose such a thing, perfectly betrays your agenda in posting here.

> the reason why master is used in the first place is inherently political

To be clear, are you asserting that the person who originally chose the term, had the explicit goal of expressing "powerful implications of racial supremacy and oppression" in version control software?

If you are not claiming that, then it is very obvious that "the reason why [the term] is used" is not political.

If you are, then you are, in fact, calling people monsters for sticking with it, and you are also making an inflammatory claim without evidence.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think a single soul implied they were monsters. There's nothing wrong with having your branch named "master" if, coincidently, that's what you have. It takes no effort to find arguments such as https://medium.com/let-s-begin/how-to-rename-your-master-bra... . Github themselves tried to push the change on people, and reporting on the issue used phrasing describing the original choice as "no longer appropriat…

[flagged]

> > Terms like master-slave carry powerful implications of racial supremacy and oppression, and have no place in our lexicon

> The first part is just true - it's not up for debate. The second part, "it doesn't belong", is just opinion.

The first part is an opinion shared by people obsessed with race. Honestly even disregarding that we're talking about "master" without "slave", "master/slave" outside of technology makes me think of BDSM first. Nothing racial about it.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ok but where do you think the term comes from? It didn't spawn into common use out of nowhere. From mastering: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastering_(audio) >And I'll say - I don't think it matters. It's all stupid bullshit in my eyes. But if it doesn't matter, which it doesn't, then main shouldn't be a problem. In my opinion. And I'll say - I don't think it matters. It's all stupid bullshit in my eyes. But if i…

Okay I'm not the one who advocated to change master. That's already been done. Now we have people advocating to change BACK to master. Also really? Audio mastering? And which, pray tell, do you believe came first?

> I'm not the one who advocated to change master. That's already been done.

Only for specific projects. I continue to use "master" for my own projects, because I disagree that the proposed reason to change has merit.

> Now we have people advocating to change BACK to master.

For the existing projects of others? Can you show any examples?

> Also really? Audio mastering?

Disbelief does not constitute an argument.

> And which, pray tell, do you believe came first?

I won't speak for the other poster, but as a matter of simple fact, Git was initially released in 2005, while other VCSes using the term may date as far back as 1969 (https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/21859/); the concept of audio mastering dates to at least the 1920s with the introduction of the microphone (per the Wikipedia link), and in turn presumably has its roots in the idea of a "master copy" of text or artwork to be printed.

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#248
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> > Terms like master-slave carry powerful implications of racial supremacy and oppression, and have no place in our lexicon > The first part is just true - it's not up for debate. The second part, "it doesn't belong", is just opinion. The first part is an opinion shared by people obsessed with race. Honestly even disregarding that we're talking about "master" without "slave", "master/slave" outside of technology mak…

[flagged]

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay I'm not the one who advocated to change master. That's already been done. Now we have people advocating to change BACK to master. Also really? Audio mastering? And which, pray tell, do you believe came first?

>Okay I'm not the one who advocated to change master. That's already been done. Now we have people advocating to change BACK to master. I don't believe that is what's being argued. >Also really? Audio mastering? Yes, audio mastering. The developer that created the concept of master branches in git specifically outlined his influence was from the concept of audio mastering (master recordings) [0]. >And which, pray tel…

[flagged]

Re: A post by Guido van Rossum removed for violating Python community guidelines

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Okay I'm not the one who advocated to change master. That's already been done. Now we have people advocating to change BACK to master. I don't believe that is what's being argued. >Also really? Audio mastering? Yes, audio mastering. The developer that created the concept of master branches in git specifically outlined his influence was from the concept of audio mastering (master recordings) [0]. >And which, pray tel…

[flagged]

[deleted]
Post reply on HN