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I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

jdstillwater.blogspot.com

241–250 of 331 posts

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#241
post #178

Please, please, clarify this bit for me. > All that day, kids got to see Mr. Stillwater’s hair dryer running under water in a fish tank. I thought I knew about electricity and water, but what I possessed was Conventional Ignorance posing as Conventional Wisdom. Humbling. Should I put the wifes running hairdryer into our fishtank to entertain our child?

Not if there are fish in it. Otherwise maybe.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#242
Great article. I had an argument with a coworker how a normal breaker works and that it won’t just fail when exceeding the rated amp-age. That it can happily continue for minutes. And of course the biggest misunderstanding: Breakers protect the cables in the wall not humans. That they can do that as well is just a nice side effect.

Never the less, I would still argue to kill the power before stepping into water with an active mains line running through it.

Just a question. How about doing this experiment in 240 land? I would assume the result would be different?

Edit: replaced rated power with amp-age

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#243
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always put my (dumb, wired) keyboards in the dishwasher and they have always come out great. I'm a statistic of one, though. I don't know if I just got lucky.

Are they dumb? Isn't there a microprocessor in every keyboard?

Microprocessors (especially older ones) are _very_ hard to kill. They're a piece of silicon embedded in epoxy essentially, very inert. There are a lot of people who wash arcade PCBs in the dishwasher, not a practice I endorse, but it works.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#244
post #167
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But as a physics teacher he probably has heard about galvanization, oxidation and similar chemical things.. I hope. As the post says > I learned two things [...] (2) GFIs only trip off when in bodies of water that are grounded. They won’t work in an aquarium sitting on a lab table, or in a plastic laundry sink with plastic drainpipes, or in a plastic shower with plastic drainpipes. I'm neither an electrician nor a…

> Why else do all electrical devices with a metal case or a metal structure have these metal bits connected to ground, if not so that most shorts will lead to the circuit being closed towards ground? That predates GFCI, it's to ensure that in the event of a short the metal case/structure will always remain safe to touch by a (presumably grounded) person. Tripping GFCI is just a bonus.

Also: metal structures can be at different potential than ground for reasons unrelated to the grid (e.g. static electricity). Grounding them helps to ensure they aren't which is especially helpful in environments where people handle sensitive electronics or ignition sources.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#246
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, corrosion/oxidation and any chemical interactions with Dish powder (if that was used) that might not be noticeable at first

This is a detergent selection problem. There are many detergents (like enzyme based) that are specifically designed for not corroding metals.

In part, sure, but given that we're talking about a dishwasher here (as opposed to an electronic device washer), I think it's not a stretch to assume using dishwashing powder. Which won't be highly corrosive, but certainly does interact with aluminium. But even without detergent, contact with water can start things rusting pretty fast.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#247
post #170

I used to ask electrical engineers who design building utilities if they ever touched a live wire with voltage running. If not, "how do you know it is really dangerous? How do you know it will electrocute you?" They don't. EVER. Want to talk to me again if they don't have to. #ConventionalIgnorance For reference, I touched 10k volts with microcurrents. It hurts! I touched 240 volts wire and felt the vibrations run up…

> That hurts too much but doesn't kill. It didn't kill once. Not enough of a sample to draw a firm conclusion from.

Reminds me of a post on HN: No random clinical trials were done to demonstrate parachutes actually work.

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#249

On a related note, I wonder if people around the world are familiar with electric showers. Essentially, it's a resistance similar to the one found in a toaster, placed right inside the showerhead. It heats the water as it flows through. People hearing about it for the first time are usually shocked that we don't die from electrecution.

I saw one of these on electro boom, he was almost disappointed not to die

Re: I put a toaster in the dishwasher (2012)

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few things in my career have granted me more power faster than taking ownership of decisions. Some people are so terrified of having to say "I was wrong" that they either will do nothing, or just happily follow decisions that someone else makes. It's one thing when that's a line employee behaving that way, but there are managers so terrified of making a mistake that all they really are is scribes, tracking who said w…

Taking ownership of decisions in this way breeds another problem: people love to police when they perceive other people taking authority that's not rightfully theirs. I had your view until 7 years at Google. Showing this to 80% of people there would garner tsktsking and quips about delusions of grandeur and seeming unbalanced. In performance reviews, you could count on this person saying you collaborate poorly and do…

Interestingly, I was at Google during I think the very end of its golden years (2011-2016). I loved it and when I heard about how sclerotic it had gotten was pretty surprised.

Looking back, IMO the seeds of its downfall had already been planted by the time I was there, including the culture of blameless postmortems.

There was this idea that any problem—any outage or whatever —reflected not stupidity on the part of the perpetrator (Google hires the smartest people after all) but a process failure. Blameless postmortems avoided blame by ending with a process recommendation.

I’ve worked at startups since, and I do think that creating an environment where people are comfortable taking risks is just a fundamentally hard culture problem, and you don’t even have to be big to have it (though it doesn’t help). I’ve seen 15-person startups where engineers wouldn’t fix something because “I’m just an engineer and this is really a product decision” while the PM says “we need to get the engineers together in a meeting and come to a consensus on this.”

IMO Google’s hack of giving people space to take risks by letting them pass off failure as a process problem did sort of work, to their credit, until they got to where it sounds like they are now, where you can’t do anything without being accused of bypassing “good process,” which means going to endless lengths to get everyone’s opinions and placating everyone who disagrees with you.

It seems like at Meta they solved the problem by regarding failure as good and just. At my current company, to do something risky, you have to write a design doc and have a comment period, and then you’re free to do whatever the doc proposes. Idk what other approaches there are—I’d pay to read a book about it, though.

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