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Robot dentist performs first human procedure

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Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#241

Post by stubish »

whimsicalism wrote: post #102
rscho wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a nutshell, no amount of lobbying will stop equivalent service for 100x cheaper. Tech does not permeate healthcare for 2 reasons: 1. mostly inapplicable. Everyone is focusing on ML model performance, but really information retrieval in healthcare is dismal and prevents the use of such new tech altogether except in very niche cases. 2. no integration in the workplace. Tech people and docs don't understand each othe…

If there are algos out there (and there are) that can accurately provide a strong heuristic on melanoma from a photo and this is being blocked by the state - that seems like an obvious instance of regulatory apparatus stopping an equivalent 100x+ cheaper service. I've discussed with a number of people who work directly on DL for imaging at a major hospital system in Boston. They say that (outside of the doctors they…

Last I heard, they were very sensitive to things like imaging equipment, so they could diagnose well if imaging was done by the same gear that provided the training data. It worked fine in the hospital that developed it, but unable to deploy widely. If that issue has been fixed, I look forward to an online service running from a less regulated region. It would be a money printer, even if the US blocked it.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#242

Post by j_timberlake »

ben_w wrote: post #159
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #143

Sometimes the drill is necessary, but imagine how infrequently we'd need it if there were robots in our homes that could do an immaculate job with the daily cleaning.

I have good news: https://www.amazon.de/s?k=electric+toothbrush ;)

Great job, now they have Hepatitis B because Amazon sold them a used toothbrush that was returned.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#243

Post by stubish »

whimsicalism wrote: post #129
ChumpGPT wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know very little about the regulatory system but, what is stopping an app to scan your skin via mobile camera to try and determine melanoma. As long as there is a disclaimer to see your physician and this is not medical advice. It would be the same as taking your blood pressure or blood sugar test at home.

The FDA would absolutely not permit that, you cannot just 'disclaimer this is not medical advice' for an actual diagnosis service.

The FDA does not regulate most of the world. There is some other issue, but I can only make guesses what that is.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#244

Post by inhumantsar »

nerdjon wrote: post #36
BobaFloutist wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But also going to the dentist already isn't exactly pleasant, the pokes, scrapes, drill noises, etc. Maybe we improve that first before sticking it in a robot? Dentists are definitely trying. The drills have gotten smaller and gentler, my dentist (and many others) offers a headset so you can listen to music/podcasts while getting your cleaning, and overall they make an effort to be less scoldy and more encouragey. T…

> and overall they make an effort to be less scoldy and more encouragey. Oh, 100%. Yeah there has for sure been progress. I do also recognize that my anxiety is not just "oh I don't like the dentist", I was lied too. That breaks that trust. I remember before I found my current dentist, I was having a ton of pain and I tried to find someone. I called them, explained the situation, explained the anxiety and where it wa…

I've had three dentists in my life. One lied to me, one stuck a toe over the line of informed consent and handed me an unexpected bill, the third half-assed his job leaving me with unnecessary work which ended up causing problems later in life.

I'm sure there are great dentists out there who are honest and empathetic but I haven't met one and don't plan on rolling the dice again anytime soon.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#245

Post by sarchertech »

tzs wrote: post #205
sva_ wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waiting for the toothbrush that brushes all teeth at once in about 15 seconds

I've wondered if you could make something to floss multiple teeth at once. Maybe something that fits over a span of teeth such as all the top teeth and is custom fitted so that it fits on the same way each time. It would have holes that you can thread floss through so that when you put it on the floss ends up between the teeth. Then you can pull on the ends of the floss and it flosses between all the teeth that the d…

You don’t want the floss just moving in and out between the teeth. The point of floss is to scrub the inside face of each tooth. So when the floss is between 2 teeth you want to press it against first one tooth and move it up and down several times and then press it up against the other tooth and do the same thing.

There’s really no way to do that to multiple teeth at once without something much much more complicated.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#246

Post by worstspotgain »

enumjorge wrote: post #238
worstspotgain wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, and the fact that a sterilized robot is way less likely to transmit airborne pathogens than a dentist and an assistant wearing a surgical mask at best. Maybe not v.1.0b4, but I'd sign up for v.1.2.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but is this a known issue? As in, are dental offices a higher risk location for diseases to spread?

Well your mucosa is more exposed than it normally is. Your mouth is acting like a receptacle, particularly when you're not wearing a dental dam. The probability that a larger pathogen-containing droplet will randomly fall in is much higher.

Larger droplets normally fall straight to the ground. Smaller droplets can be sucked in by breathing in no matter what, so the probability for those is equivalent to just being near someone. However, depending on the pathogen, risk can scale much more than linearly with droplet size. Overall risk is probably in the ballpark of an unmasked in-your-face shouting match with someone.

Then as someone else mentioned, any fomites can transfer from anything non-sterile that the dentist or assistant touches. There can also be aerosol-generating procedures in other rooms, though the robot wouldn't help there (they'd need a negative air pressure system.)

This discusses some of the risks, but mostly from the standpoint of protecting the providers from the patients: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK589669/

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#247

Post by viraptor »

supportengineer wrote: post #139
lovethevoid wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of fields like this, where they have mostly been reduced to refinements but ultimately are still very barbaric procedures. All we've done is upgrade the stick (in this case, a nice shiny pick), but the procedure hasn't changed much at all. Too much of dentistry is still stuck on instant fix solutions. Take hard metal, scrape teeth. Something wrong on inside, just drill into it scrape it out and fill i…

If you avoid sugar and floss religiously, and have a decent calcium intake, that takes care of most of the potential problems.

Add decent calcium processing/distribution. I get too much calcium deposit and vit D+K basically fixed my dental issues. Unfortunately it took 30 years for a dentist to tell me about that.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#248

Post by rscho »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #210
rscho wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think places like Boston are where docs earn the most ?

I made no claims regarding the geographical distribution of physician wages. I specifically claimed that wait times for specialists in Boston is on the order of months, which I speculate is due to the medical board artificially limiting the number of physicians.

But then, revenue does not correlate with scarcity anymore?

To be clear, I think you're right up to a certain point, but it makes some sense to be very elitist about who can practice in what you'd like to be the medical 'pride of the nation'. Now, scarcity in other regions is another matter, where it makes sense to relax standards. How much you relax the standard is a matter of how low you accept to go in terms of quality.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#249

Post by throwaway2037 »

matwood wrote: post #186
avgDev wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what is your job? I will be honest, I've had better luck with google than most doctors. I've had doctors say things which were completely incorrect. I've had doctors prescribe unnecessary and not advised meds for what they diagnosed me with(incorrectly). I have friends who are pharmacists and they agree with my opinion, and they interact with doctors daily.

Doctors are people doing a job just like anyone else. The old joke, 'what do you call someone who graduated last in their med school class? Doctor.' Just like software, there are good ones, bad ones, and average ones. By definition, most are average. I know a few surgeons who are nerds about surgery like many on HN are about technology. But they are also the first ones to tell you not all doctors are the same.

You comment about average overlooks the funnel to become a doctor/dentist. It is hard even to get in school.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#250

Post by jeffbee »

tssge wrote: post #181
a_t48 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also exist eg https://sonic-brush.net - but they aren't very good yet.

That's a dropshipping site for AliExpress products shipping from China. You'll save money if you buy the product straight from AliExpress without a middleman in between. However as you said, the toothbrush doesn't actually work.

Why is it now a trend to point this out? Marketing foreign-made inventory in your country is a long-standing legitimate business. Most individuals do not want to personally deal with a Chinese outlet.
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