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Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

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Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#241

Post by freedomben »

mrighele wrote: post #220
enriquto wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (...) switch to a less permissive license. License "permissiveness" is a relative concept. From the point of view of the users of your software, the GPL is more permissive than MIT, since they have permission to see the source code. If you release software under MIT or BSD licenses, you allow middlemen to strip this right to users of your software.

> you allow middlemen to strip this right to users of your software. That's not true. Somebody can take the source code and build something closed on top of it, but the original code will be already free, and you will always have the right to see it. For example, PlayStation OS is based on FreeBSD (AFAIK). They took it, adapted it and added a lot of stuff. Did you lose the right to see the source code of FreeBSD ? No…

GP is clearly talking about this is the same context that the GPL does. This is a decades-long running debate and it isn't as simple as you and the sibling commenters are trying to make it.

Of course it doesn't change the original project. But when people take the codebase and build a new product on it, what GP says is absolutely the case. The devs can withhold all code and rights to it from the next user. This is most commonly an issue when it comes to libraries rather than end products, but not always.

It doesn't also have to mean that the original project dies or disappears, it can just rob from their growth potential. Examples are quite easy to find. There's been a big hullaballoo over cloud providers taking open source projects and competing with them by offering managed versions of the service that are well-integrated into their ecosystems. Economically this is also a problem because the cloud provider can then undercut the price of the managed service compared to the official one since they aren't bearing the burden of building/maintaining the codebase.

I'm by no means against "permissive" licensing (MIT, etc), I think they have their time and place just like GPL, etc, but I am against dismissing valid concerns with shallow replies.

Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#242

Post by hfgjbcgjbvg »

flykespice wrote: post #198
enriquto wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (...) switch to a less permissive license. License "permissiveness" is a relative concept. From the point of view of the users of your software, the GPL is more permissive than MIT, since they have permission to see the source code. If you release software under MIT or BSD licenses, you allow middlemen to strip this right to users of your software.

That is a complete nonsensical claim & willful attempt at spreading misinformation: Permissive licenses doesn't grants you less freedom than GPL, infact it grants you more because the user also has the freedom to modify source code without being enforced to make it public. Companies copying the codebase to their propietary ones won't automatically strip right of users, licenses don't work like that, the original code…

You can copy GPL code, modify it and use it personally and nobody is going to care unless you’re making tons of money. The entities pushing for MIT style licensing are massive and for profit.

Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#243

Post by bayindirh »

paddim8 wrote: post #232
efilife wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if ladybird gets used regularly by ~1000 nerds, which is its current audience, then gets forked by microsoft and the current ME gets replaced by ladybird. Even if ladybird got over 9000 users, there's no competing with megacorps. Also, its* not it's

Well maybe they're ok with that? They want browser diversity. Getting Microsoft to use a new engine is better for diversity than if they just used chromium like now.

Getting Microsoft to use a new engine and contribute back to the original repository is better for diversity, but forking and running away with it is certainly not.

Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#245

Post by ledgerdev »

awesomekling wrote: post #5

Hello friends, Ladybird founder here! Here's a short video from Chris Wanstrath announcing our non-profit yesterday, and kicking things off with a $1M donation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9edTqPMX_k Happy to answer questions :)

Hey please be sure to design and at least mock out a way to host/run a collection of local LLM models in a generic manner. You could give the models access to context/content/history and to bubble up functionality within the browser. I can see tons of potential for something trusted and local which I'm comfortable giving full access to browsing history and not owned by big tech.

This could be key differentiator over other browsers.

Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#246

Post by 8organicbits »

Is there any caniuse data for Ladybird? It would be helpful to see which standards Ladybird implements so Ladybird users can use my site. Building websites that use the supported standards seems like a good way to support the project.

Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#247

Post by awesomekling »

kamov wrote: post #170
awesomekling wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have not been debating this publicly as it has a 100% chance of devolving into a bikeshed discussion :)

Whatever language you end up choosing, I hope it will be a memory safe one. Browsers' main purpose is to interact with the outside world, and they even have to run third party code (JS) all the time, so minimizing attack surface would go a long way I think

Yes, our next language will be a memory safe one.

Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#248

Post by freedomben »

guappa wrote: post #225
flykespice wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a complete nonsensical claim & willful attempt at spreading misinformation: Permissive licenses doesn't grants you less freedom than GPL, infact it grants you more because the user also has the freedom to modify source code without being enforced to make it public. Companies copying the codebase to their propietary ones won't automatically strip right of users, licenses don't work like that, the original code…

[flagged]

I'm guessing you're being downvoted for comparing software to slavery. Generally speaking, the modern society seems to have forgotten that the world isn't binary - you can make comparisons and have similarities that are far apart on the spectrum so aren't equalities, but can still find informative meaning.

But to your point, this exact argument was used by top southern politicians to justify slavery! It was the freedom of the slave owner, their right to own property, that justified slavery. James Hammond famously made this argument to congress shortly before the Civil War broke out. If this is interesting to you, Eric Larson just released a great book called "The Demon of Unrest" that covers this.

Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#249

Post by freedomben »

paulcole wrote: post #183
pferde wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. This is something I could see myself contributing to (or attempting to, anyway), but as soon as I saw Discord+Github, I lost all interest. Github I can understand to some extent, it's a convenient temporary staying place until they can afford, community-wise, to move to something truly open, but Discord? In this day and age?

> but Discord? In this day and age? What’s your recommended alternative?

Matrix is a wonderful alternative

Re: Ladybird Web Browser becomes a non-profit with $1M from GitHub Founder

#250

Post by freedomben »

ledgerdev wrote: post #245
awesomekling wrote: post #5

Hello friends, Ladybird founder here! Here's a short video from Chris Wanstrath announcing our non-profit yesterday, and kicking things off with a $1M donation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9edTqPMX_k Happy to answer questions :)

Hey please be sure to design and at least mock out a way to host/run a collection of local LLM models in a generic manner. You could give the models access to context/content/history and to bubble up functionality within the browser. I can see tons of potential for something trusted and local which I'm comfortable giving full access to browsing history and not owned by big tech. This could be key differentiator over…

I agree, though this does not seem like something that should be built until the browser is at least usable, which currently they're projecting an alpha release in 2026. By then things might be totally different, so don't architect yourself into a corner with it, but I also wouldn't invest much or any time into it right now. Focus on building good APIs/extension points though, and those will be immensely useful whether for local LLMs, extensions, or anything.
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