Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event' • Hacker News Board

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#241

Post by _djo_ » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 4:41 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #236

_djo_ wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Intervention in the violent breakup of Yugoslavia, invited to do so by the UN in response to the genocide going on there. Indeed. So not an aggressive invasion but a humanitarian intervention. > * Invasion of Afghanistan, following the invocation of Article 5 after an attack on a NATO country (i.e., 9/11). Not quite. Technically speaking, neither of the official NATO missions in Afghanistan, ISAF and Resolute Sup…

The invasion of Afghanistan was as much self defence as the invasion of Ukraine. Probably less, actually. The idea that it was any kind of self defence is kind of pathetic, and mirrors Putinesque propaganda. It was occupation pure and simple. America really wanted to set up military bases there. It was a black spot in the world which it lacked imperial force projection and it was right between 3 major rivals (Russia,…

In what sense was it not self defence under international law?

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#242

Post by pydry » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 4:44 PM UTC

_djo_ wrote: post #239

pydry wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

See my other reply. In any case, that you can refer to these as ‘aggressive imperialist power plays’ shows you’re both not to be taken seriously and are not willing to engage in a good faith and informed discussion.

Yes... in your other reply you said it was a humanitarian intervention to stop a genocide in Kosovo.

Exactly like a Putin supporter would say about Ukraine.

Except there was no genocide in Kosovo (Kosovo is not Bosnia) and there is no genocide in Ukraine.

There is one in Gaza though and it is backed by NATO, the same people you called humanitarians.

A Putin supporter also wouldnt be bothered about the murderous hypocrisy, but Chomsky was. Thats what set him apart.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#243

Post by me_me_me » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

sickofparadox wrote: post #220

sitkack wrote: post #71

I love Noam Chomsky so much. To me he is epitome of what a rational caring intellectual should be. Number one, he strives for the truth and while can have intellectual blind spots, isn't afraid of calling them out. We had him has a guest speaker for an internal presentation at Google and of course we had some hyper-rational libertarian eastern block swe kid who was going to take him down and Noam was super respectful…

He is such a terrible person he has his own section on the Wikipedia page for "Cambodian Genocide Denial"[1] and is heavily featured in the page for "Bosnian Genocide Denial"[2]. Chomsky is a disgusting hack who runs cover for any genocidal freak that pays lip service to the hammer and sickle. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial#Chom... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide_denial…

oh wow, its the same dead horse being beaten again and again and again.

The whole thing is more semantical argument than ideological.

Chomsky is not 100% right on everything and his world views are more black and white than the world they describe.

But he is an excellent linchpin to validate your own views against.

People who hate him always attack him based on few things from the past, while following/praising people who are spineless.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#244

Post by me_me_me » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 4:58 PM UTC

cbanek wrote: post #23

nomilk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Documentary of the same title for anyone curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li2m3rvsO0I

I honestly think the documentary is shorter and better than the book, thanks for the link.

The book is very much still relevant

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#245

Post by pydry » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 5:05 PM UTC

_djo_ wrote: post #241

pydry wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The invasion of Afghanistan was as much self defence as the invasion of Ukraine. Probably less, actually. The idea that it was any kind of self defence is kind of pathetic, and mirrors Putinesque propaganda. It was occupation pure and simple. America really wanted to set up military bases there. It was a black spot in the world which it lacked imperial force projection and it was right between 3 major rivals (Russia,…

In what sense was it not self defence under international law?

Afghanistan did not knock down the twin towers. It actually offered to hand over bin Laden if the US provided evidence of his involvement and tried him in a neutral country.

That wasn't good enough for the US, who were itching for a military invasion anyway, and were keen to build some military bases in a spot where they didnt yet have any.

The idea that the US follows international law is a sick joke. The idea that the country that created the Hague invasion act has nonzero respect for international law is laughable.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#246

Post by _djo_ » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 5:06 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #242

_djo_ wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my other reply. In any case, that you can refer to these as ‘aggressive imperialist power plays’ shows you’re both not to be taken seriously and are not willing to engage in a good faith and informed discussion.

Yes... in your other reply you said it was a humanitarian intervention to stop a genocide in Kosovo. Exactly like a Putin supporter would say about Ukraine. Except there was no genocide in Kosovo (Kosovo is not Bosnia) and there is no genocide in Ukraine. There is one in Gaza though and it is backed by NATO, the same people you called humanitarians. A Putin supporter also wouldnt be bothered about the murderous hypoc…

The Serbian campaign was ethnic cleansing on a massive scale, forcefully and methodically expelling over a million Kosovar Albanians from the area by the time they were stopped by NATO’s intervention. That does, arguably, rise to the level of genocide under the standard definitions.

Just because someone can claim something doesn’t mean it’s right. That determination is up to independent observers, experts, and courts, and tribunals.

Russia tried to claim at the ICJ that it was invading Ukraine under the Genocide Convention. The court ruled that it had to end to the invasion immediately, which Russia ignored.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#247

Post by _djo_ » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 5:14 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #245

_djo_ wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense was it not self defence under international law?

Afghanistan did not knock down the twin towers. It actually offered to hand over bin Laden if the US provided evidence of his involvement and tried him in a neutral country. That wasn't good enough for the US, who were itching for a military invasion anyway, and were keen to build some military bases in a spot where they didnt yet have any. The idea that the US follows international law is a sick joke. The idea that…

You can’t seriously believe that.

First, the Taliban ‘offer’ was so full of caveats as to be worthless and, most importantly, they refused to do anything about the rest of the Al-Qaeda organisation that they hosted and shared power with and which attacked the US. Putting Bin Laden on trial in some supposed neutral third country would’ve done nothing to remove the clear and present threat to the US that Al-Qaeda at the time presented. So, yes, the US’s actions were legal under international law.

None of the major powers outside Europe have acceded to the ICC. Neither the US, nor India, nor China, nor Russia.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#248

Post by Izkata » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 5:15 PM UTC

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #228

collyw wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you believe that "vaccinations protect us against disease" is propaganda, I have very bad news about whatever information sources you've been following.

He was talking about the covid vaccines when he said that, which never prevented infection or spread. That belief started from a misunderstanding of the press releases.

He either didn't know what he was talking about or was making it a moral thing without regard to effectiveness.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#249

Post by em-bee » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 5:31 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #187

vasco wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you believe this would work? Specifically any form of anarchism? Have you seen groups of people operate for large periods of time successfully like this? Anything I've looked into shows me human nature would make any anarcho-anything system fail due to infighting.

Have you seen what the current system of bourgeoisie corporate rule is doing to us? Is that system “working”? In June 1888 Peter Kropotkin wrote “Are we good enough?” on the subject of human nature and anarchism. It’s well worth a listen: https://youtu.be/jytf-5St8WU

peter kropotkin was right about the then state of things, but he missed the true solution. if i understand it correctly he is saying that in light of us not being good enough, a communist system is better than a capitalist one. and yet, communist systems largely failed.

the real solution is to fix the "are we good enough" problem and change education such that we actually become good enough. this requires moral education to a degree that is not happening anywhere yet. the reality is that as peter says in the beginning, if we were good enough, then the system would not matter. and has history has shown, as long as we are not good enough, any system remains exploitable. communism brought a temporary relief but ended up failing because we still were not good enough.

so lets forget this arguing about which system is better. it does not matter. what matters is that we learn to become good enough. that should be our goal. that's the only way to eliminate all problems.

Re: Noam Chomsky 'no longer able to talk' after 'medical event'

#250

Post by cm2187 » Tue, Jun 11, 2024, 5:33 PM UTC

feedforward wrote: post #233

cm2187 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1979 was after the genocide and after Pol Pot was pushed out of power. Implying the US had something to do with the killing fields defies common sense. The khmer rouges were primarily China and North Vietnam backed. Now the US did support some incompetent and corrupt militia in Cambodia to oppose the Khmer rouges, and those did their fair share of misdeeds, to the frustration of local US officers. But given the crime…

> The khmer rouges were primarily China and North Vietnam backed. Vietnam invaded Cambodia in 1979 and China invaded Vietnam in 1979. What are you talking about?

In April 1975, the Khmer Rouge seized power in Cambodia, and in January 1976, Democratic Kampuchea was established. During the Cambodian genocide, the CCP was the main international patron of the Khmer Rouge, supplying "more than 15,000 military advisers" and most of its external aid.[82] It is estimated that at least 90% of the foreign aid to Khmer Rouge came from China, with 1975 alone seeing US$1 billion in interest-free economic and military aid and US$20 million gift, which was "the biggest aid ever given to any one country by China"

And if you read the article, north vietnam was their main backer before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge#1975%E2%80%931993