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Firefox search update

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox search update

#241

Post by Sammi »

JeremyNT wrote: post #168
aquova wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I constantly see this take and I'm afraid I don't agree with it. Firefox is continuing to lose market share, and I think it's less anything they're doing and due simply to the fact that Google is a household name while Mozilla is not. When the user is already using a Google phone, email, search, maps, drive, and document editor, it follows to also use their browser. Simply being a solid browser isn't enough to motiva…

I agree with this take. It's not like the power users who currently use Firefox and yet dislike this stuff are going to switch away from Firefox, since there's nothing to switch to other than Chrome, which is clearly worse. Personal anecdote, I didn't like Pocket being added to Firefox, but eventually I did start using it - only because it came from Mozilla. And I currently pay Mozilla money for Relay (along with VPN…

I will switch away from Firefox to Ladybird as soon as Ladybird is half as good as Firefox.

Re: Firefox search update

#243

Post by hostyle »

err4nt wrote: post #242

There's a saying that web developers I know have been repeating for years: "Friends don't let friends use Firefox"

That says more about the web developers that you know than it does about Firefox.

Its anecdotal I know, but would have to say that I know more web devs who use Firefox as their daily driver (or use more than one browser), than those who use just Safari or Chrome only. The better web developers (better able to solve bugs, and write less error prone code) are the ones who don't use Chrome for everything.

Re: Firefox search update

#244

Post by JohnFen »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #230
JohnFen wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to conflate two entirely different ways of "using existing code". Using tools written by others is technically "using existing code", but that's an entirely different thing than incorporating existing code into your projects. I think that when most devs hear "using existing code", they're thinking of the latter, not the former.

How is calling a library and using a function someone else wrote not the same thing as using a function someone else wrote in any other way? Cite your sources by all means but still the difference is a semantical one.

I don't understand your question.

What I'm saying is that calling a library/crate/whatever is an entirely different thing from using a tool like a compiler/IDE/etc. In the former, you're incorporating external code into your project. In the latter, you're not.

I think most people wouldn't say that you're "using someone else's code" in your project just by using a tool written by someone else because the tool's code is not being included in your project.

Perhaps I misunderstood you, though. Your statement "There must be a bunch of hardcore people on here who are writing directly on the metal in machine code" heavily implies that you believe that using an assembler or compiler counts as "using existing code". In this context, I don't think it does.

By the way, I do, in fact, sometimes write code directly in machine language. Not large amounts of it, of course, but some.

Re: Firefox search update

#245

Post by ReadCarlBarks »

beretguy wrote: post #45
groovecoder wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Containers?

I love containers when developing! Especially when working with or testing authentication related stuff. No need to open private tabs all the time.

This extension lets you open self-destructing containers: https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/open-in-temp-container/ .

Re: Firefox search update

#246

Post by int_19h »

jasonlotito wrote: post #203
romanows wrote: post #11

Seems like this is in support of "Firefox Suggest", which seems to show sponsored links. I really don't like advertising so I really don't like going down that road. Can't they just take Google's yearly $600,000,000 payment and build the best browser "for the user" while also addressing technical debt and organizational issues so it can continue as an open source project if/when the money ever dries up?

> Seems like this is in support of "Firefox Suggest", which seems to show sponsored links. Browsing history, bookmarks, clipboard, open tabs, shortcuts, search engines, suggestions from firefox, suggestions from sponsors. Each of those can be individually turned off and on. Why do you think Firefox Suggest using browsing history, bookmarks, clipboard, open tabs, shortcuts, search engines, suggestions from firefox isn…

They don't need my data to show me suggestions from my own browsing history, bookmarks etc. They only need it for "suggestions from sponsors", which is ad spam.

Re: Firefox search update

#247

Post by int_19h »

Barrin92 wrote: post #213
bobthecowboy wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact cookie banners show this. People hate them because they force meaningless choices on them. If you make a website with tracking as an opt-out option, almost everyone clicks "accept all". If you make a website with tracking as opt-in, almost every one clicks accept all. That shows that opt-in/out or consent does literally nothing ot reflect people's preferences, the act of making a choice completely dominates…

> It's not a shock that people when confronted with this will click the easy button, and that doesn't mean it reflects their actual interests. Yes, but that was my actual point. If one simple UI design trick is enough to completely flip the choices of users, then consent forms aren't a robust way to collect preferences at all. In fact if you wanted to genuinely and in good faith provide access to granular preferences…

That does not justify collecting such data without their explicit consent.

Re: Firefox search update

#248

Post by int_19h »

Marsymars wrote: post #178
beretguy wrote: post #68

I’d rather they make Firefox subscription based. I’d rather pay $5 a month and have no ads or tracking of any kind. They can even run a separate fork of Firefox or something for this purpose. If Firefox goes down Google will lock internet behind a DRM and we gonna need another rms or Torvalds to deliver us from this hell. Can you imagine a world without Linux, with Windows and Mac pretty much the only mainstream alte…

Paid web browsers have been tried... Opera and OmniWeb probably the most notable examples, and it just doesn't seem like there's a workable market there.

Things have changed. We have paid search engines now, and they don't seem to be having a problem finding customers.

Re: Firefox search update

#249

Post by int_19h »

mrob wrote: post #78

I don't even want my browser to support searching from the browser UI. If I want to send information to Google I'll visit their web page directly. I don't want to do it by a misclick. It's surprisingly difficult to disable searching from the browser UI in Firefox. Firefox insists you have at least one search engine enabled at all times. The best option I know of is to set the undocumented setting "browser.urlbar.upda…

FWIW in Vivaldi you can completely disable search from address field in settings and then remove the search field from the toolbar.

Re: Firefox search update

#250

Post by int_19h »

lxgr wrote: post #137
bloopernova wrote: post #62

I don't want to be given a "browsing experience". I don't want to be treated as a product, sold to data brokers without my knowledge. My browsing experience is already tailored to me by my own actions. I guess I'll be migrating to LibreWolf.

How does having a browsing experience imply being a product? Is it possible to use Firefox without having a browsing experience? It is a web browser! Seems like Mozilla really is fighting a losing battle: Whenever they as much as think about doing 1% of the monitoring that their competitors do (often for user research to guide and focus their development efforts; unclear if that's what's happening here though), they…

The users are telling them pretty loudly what they actually want and need.

The problem is that Mozilla then consistently does something else, and tells its users that it's for their own good.

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