Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison • Hacker News Board

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#241

Post by robertlagrant » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

bodiekane wrote: post #181

It's wild that 99% of the "point" of crypto and a Bahamas-based exchange was to avoid all the laws around securities trading, banking, money transferring (anti-money laundering, taxes, etc), etc and yet when things go south, people still expect the government to come in and enforce a tiny subset of the financial laws they've otherwise been operating outside of. This is a weird form of "privatize the profits, socializ…

> This is a weird form of "privatize the profits, socialize the losses" but with the benefactors being the people intentionally avoiding all the financial laws.

No, it's, as usual, the government choosing to do the wrong thing with your tax money, because it will be bad publicity not to, because votes, because power.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#242

Post by axus » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #182

klodolph wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25 years is a damn long time. I don’t know how that can “seem low”.

Part of it is that he took it to trial. He likely could have negotiated a deal for single-digit years if he had admitted guilt and cooperated.

I don't think we should pressure people into admitting guilt, but cooperating could be important. What more should he have done to help the people affected by his fraud?

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#243

Post by loeg » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

bodiekane wrote: post #181

It's wild that 99% of the "point" of crypto and a Bahamas-based exchange was to avoid all the laws around securities trading, banking, money transferring (anti-money laundering, taxes, etc), etc and yet when things go south, people still expect the government to come in and enforce a tiny subset of the financial laws they've otherwise been operating outside of. This is a weird form of "privatize the profits, socializ…

Can you elaborate on how FTX's losses were socialized here?

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#244

Post by marcus_holmes » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

I love HN, it's one of the few places you can get reasoned conversation online.

But this is one of those subjects where it gets weird.

SBF was directly responsible for millions, if not billions, of direct monetary loss to identified individuals. Yet the top comments on HN are all discussing whether incarceration is retribution, spite, deterrence, or rehabilition.

The USA incarcerates people for tiny financial damages at a higher rate than anywhere else in the world. $20 of theft? 5 years away, no problem. $1 billion: well we should consider what we're trying to achieve here...

If the USA is going to be consistent in sentencing then just fucking kill him.

Or reconsider and free the thousands of black dudes serving ridiculous sentences for minor crimes.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#245

Post by i1856511 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #200

bodiekane wrote: post #181

It's wild that 99% of the "point" of crypto and a Bahamas-based exchange was to avoid all the laws around securities trading, banking, money transferring (anti-money laundering, taxes, etc), etc and yet when things go south, people still expect the government to come in and enforce a tiny subset of the financial laws they've otherwise been operating outside of. This is a weird form of "privatize the profits, socializ…

Yeah, I agree. This should fall under “caveat emptor”. Everyone using unregulated exchanges (which IMO should be an option for everyone) should recognize that they are subject to additional risks (and benefits). The government shouldn’t outlaw free climbing either. It’s your own fault if you treat a bunch of foolish kids with millions of dollars the same way you would an onshore FDIC-insured regulated bank. Canada Bi…

I agree with you as well, but this is a major example of how, despite this ideal, something like this can sweep up so many people that would otherwise never interact with a system like this. People who don't know who SBF is, never heard of Hacker News, who don't understand crypto, getting convinced to put money into this by, say, a younger relative. It is a real side-effect of this thing existing on this scale on a planet populated by humans.

People don't go mass free-climbing because it isn't something you do by accident. The danger is obvious. But this danger is abstract, and the ease of entering this type of system can happen with just a few clicks from the comfort of your home. And getting dollar signs in your eyes is a very psychologically influential pull.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#246

Post by taytus » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:37 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #146

hnthrow9009 wrote: post #103

[flagged]

How much do you think an extra 5 years would add in terms of deterrence? It seems downright dishonest to characterize a third of his life as a joke. Where I would put my energy into is making the risk of being prosecuted higher. If getting prosecuted is rare, the kind of people who are into cryptocurrency are going to figure that they’re likely to get away with it as long as they aren’t so blatant. White collar crime…

50 years. What the prosecutor asked.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#247

Post by GenerWork » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:37 PM UTC

bodiekane wrote: post #181

It's wild that 99% of the "point" of crypto and a Bahamas-based exchange was to avoid all the laws around securities trading, banking, money transferring (anti-money laundering, taxes, etc), etc and yet when things go south, people still expect the government to come in and enforce a tiny subset of the financial laws they've otherwise been operating outside of. This is a weird form of "privatize the profits, socializ…

I agree 100%. You want to operate outside the law? That's fine with me, but you gotta accept the risks. However, that means you have to be extra-judicious about who you operate with. I've found it funny to hear crypto proponents scream about how the government needs to prosecute him yet they'll turn right back around and demand that the government needs to have less regulation and taxation of crypto.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#248

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:37 PM UTC

lesuorac wrote: post #220

misiti3780 wrote: post #3

A year ago, HN didnt think he was going to jail: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33908850

Honestly, downvoted. The top voted comment in that topic is saying he's going to jail. Just because in a forum with a gazillion people some people have a different one doesn't make it representative of the median/mean/etc. Also, it's not bad to have a counter-opinion to a group; it is bad to claim a singular opinion is that of the group without any actual justification. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33908577

The top voted comment in that topic is also saying "For everyone on this thread making broad proclamations about how SBF won't go to jail", yes? Implying quite a few people held that opinion here?

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#249

Post by hnthrow9009 » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:37 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #146

hnthrow9009 wrote: post #103

[flagged]

How much do you think an extra 5 years would add in terms of deterrence? It seems downright dishonest to characterize a third of his life as a joke. Where I would put my energy into is making the risk of being prosecuted higher. If getting prosecuted is rare, the kind of people who are into cryptocurrency are going to figure that they’re likely to get away with it as long as they aren’t so blatant. White collar crime…

The smaller players already avoid America like the plague and their avoidance is only increasing due to a zealous SEC decreasing the likelihood of successful prosecutions. Big cases make the biggest difference because diplomatic pressure can be applied, which is why it's a shame that the US flexed on the Bahamas like they did for a case that only gets 25 years.

Re: Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years in prison

#250

Post by dijit » Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

zug_zug wrote: post #164

PokedBear wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone isn't a violent threat to society, there isn't much social benefit to keeping folks locked up longer then 20-ish years. 20-25 (assuming he gets the 15% off for good behavior the feds allow) is plenty.

Feels low to me too. I think the distinction between "violent" is completely irrelevant. I think taking money from people does just as much harm as physically injuring them -- many people would rather have several bones broken than lose their pension. The benefit is the deterrent. It's especially important for wealthy people who we may wonder if they greased wheels behind the scenes. If you want somebody to cry about…

FWIW people have a viceral reaction to extremes of violence that they can comprehend.

When you consider that a 1% unemployment rate increase generally correlates to ~5,000 deaths then you can consider gross financial negligence to have an actual tangible human mortality cost.

We just don't, because it's too indirect and your laywer would argue confounding factors until you are all dead; but don't be mistaken: financial crimes do cost lives.