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How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

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Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#241

Post by cyberax »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #136
elzbardico wrote: post #105

At my home country we used counter-weights, pulleys and cables. Took more space, it is arguably uglier (but who cares how it looks on the inside?) but the cable usually lasts for ages and fixing it is not a life-threatening procedure.

How does a counterweight work? A torsion spring is great because as it unwinds, the tension decreases. As the garage door transitions from 200 lbs of vertical load in the closed position to almost 0 lbs when it's mostly parallel to the ceiling, a properly sized and wound spring reduces the force in synchrony with the door position. Wouldn't a counterweight provide insufficient force at the bottom and/or excess force…

You use multiple weights that telescope into each other ( https://www.hermco.ca/products/2000-series/ ), or a segmented counterweight (Kelley E-Systems one company that does this).

But they require space and a sturdy housing. Springs are as compact as you can get.

There are also some safety concerns, a cable connecting the door to the counterweight can break, and/or slip. This can result in pieces of metal flying everywhere. A broken spring typically stays contained.

Personally, I would do one of the counterweight systems for my new house.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#242

Post by mhb »

ethbr1 wrote: post #238
codethatwerks wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a counterweight or a piston instead (pistons are used in pull down beds which might be a similar load)

See sibling comment above about the variable counterbalance needed for a normal right-angle tracked garage door. You'd have to match the counterweight to the varying load (i.e. garage door effectively gets "lighter" the more its raised).

Counterweight = a length of chain that lands in a bucket as the door goes up.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#243

Post by Projectiboga »

Projectiboga wrote: post #190
mbreese wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured for all ages it would also encompass falling off something. A chair, bed, etc… one type is more predominant for the younger ages (falling from something), the other is likely more predominant for the older ages (falling down, tripping, stairs, etc).

Falls hit 50% fatal above a twelve foot drop. Remember kids gravity is an accelerative force. It isn't a static force. You fall faster and faster every second you fall.

Until you hit 'terminal velocity'.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#244

Post by BenFranklin100 »

cruffle_duffle wrote: post #184
cityofdelusion wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is pretty much zero risk if the car is either jacked correctly or put on ramps correctly. Dummies that rely on a single 1.5mm o-ring not blowing out on their hydraulic floor jacks are gambling with their life. Always operate on flat terrain, always chock the wheels, always use the parking brake, always use jack stands, always verify no movement in the vehicle by rocking it, never rely on the floor jack.

It’s amazing and honestly kind of sad how risk averse some people are. The reason I don’t change my oil anymore is it just isn’t worth the time and hassle. The “unsafety” of such a task doesn’t even register on my things to be worried about: at all. Jack it up, remember to put on gloves(!!!!) put the fucker on stands and go. The actual scary thing is I’m pretty sure way back when I was a kid we’d just dump the oil do…

I’m baffled too. Changing oil in a car is dead simple and effectively zero risk with a proper pair of jack stands and a modicum of common sense and mechanical aptitude.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#245

Post by rdtsc »

QuercusMax wrote: post #158
kelnos wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the garage door opener breaks, or the power is out, many people might have a really tough time opening the door manually without those springs. They might not be able to even do it at all. It is still, of course, a valid question to ask if it's worth having dangerous springs up there all the time for the rare event of the opener being inoperative. Or maybe we just shouldn't have doors that are that heavy?

They are surprisingly heavy, which is why you need such a beefy spring. When my spring broke a decade or so ago, I wasn't able to lift the door on my own, and with the assistance of my wife we were just barely able to lift it. Looks like they can easily be 200-500 lbs depend on materials (steel isn't light, but it's lighter than wood for this application), and I guess the issue is that you have to lift hundreds of po…

I lifted mine but probably shouldn't have. I kept sticking stuff under it, a crate, a stool, until I was able to put two step ladders under. The higher it goes, the lighter it becomes since now the horizontal roller starts to take on some of the weight. But it's super dangerous.

When the spring broke, one of them snapped, and the quickly dropping door snapped the other one as well. Surprisingly it didn't damage the door itself. It's a double door so had two springs.

I toyed with the idea of replacing the springs myself but after asking around doing a few searches decided it's best I pay a professional to do it.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#246

Post by rdtsc »

7thaccount wrote: post #162
kelnos wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the garage door opener breaks, or the power is out, many people might have a really tough time opening the door manually without those springs. They might not be able to even do it at all. It is still, of course, a valid question to ask if it's worth having dangerous springs up there all the time for the rare event of the opener being inoperative. Or maybe we just shouldn't have doors that are that heavy?

My garage door is no longer connected to the opener, I just swing it up manually twice a day. My kid can do so as well without issue. Maybe mine is lighter.

That's why it's surprising how heavy the doors are. Springs make it very easy open and close the garage doors with one hand, so we get used to it. When springs snap, (they all have a limited lifetime) the doors suddenly feel surprisingly heavy.

Don't know your situation but I'd dare to suggest fix the opener, simply because it means not standing right underneath, you or your kid, when the springs snap. It was quite startling when that happened.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#247

Post by ComputerGuru »

LoganDark wrote: post #188
notact wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it gets progressively easier as more and more of the door rides horizontally on its rails. But those first few inches where the door is nearly entirely vertical, must be some significant fraction of the total weight, probably >90%.

Not to mention you have to get your fingers or something underneath the closed door in order to begin lifting it in the first place. So the "from the ground" part is not insignificant.

All garage doors I’ve seen had a heavy yank handle on the inside.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#248

Post by jakogut »

amluto wrote: post #126
levocardia wrote: post #5

I had a teacher in high school who was blinded (I think only in one eye) trying to do this repair. You could not pay me enough money to do this repair. >This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your gutters. Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency department visits for adults [1], which is why I'd hire a professiona…

I don’t understand why it’s even considered safe to have one of these springs in one’s garage without a solid shield of some sort. While the energy involved is small on the scale of energy storage devices ( Which brings to mind some rather different designs. A rather small motor with a lot of mechanical advantage can easily open a close a garage door, and if a DC or low voltage AC motor is used, it could do so quite…

> I’m honestly not sure why springs are common at all in this application.

Properly adjusted springs effectively cancel out the weight of the door. This makes it easy to open and close with and without an opener, and greatly limits the danger of a door falling closed under it's own weight, which can seriously hurt someone.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#249

Post by linsomniac »

I think the next time I have to replace my torsion springs, I'm going to install the Coplay Ez-Set system, anyone have experience with it? It has a built in tensioning system. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Clopay-EZ-Set-Torsion-Conversion...

It has a built-in winder that uses a power drill.

There are tools that will attach to the traditional winders and you can use a power drill, those tools are $800, which is a bit hard to swallow.

Re: How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

#250

Post by paradox460 »

the__alchemist wrote: post #20
levocardia wrote: post #5

I had a teacher in high school who was blinded (I think only in one eye) trying to do this repair. You could not pay me enough money to do this repair. >This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your gutters. Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency department visits for adults [1], which is why I'd hire a professiona…

Thank you. I agree on all examples. Absolutely not worth the risk. Not even close. I wince thinking about when I changed my own oil in my 20s... Potentially throwing away so many good years, for so little gain. The car danger can be mitigated if the work is done under a professional lift.

I bought an oil/fluid extractor off Amazon. It's basically a bicycle pump sized tank, with a long hose you stuff down the dipstick hole. You then pump the unit up, which creates a vacuum, and pulls the oil up and out of the car. Takes about 5 minutes to get 5 quarts out, and then you just refill, pour the used oil into the now empty bottles the new oil came in, and take it to your oil recycling center
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