Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#241

Post by nerdjon »

smoldesu wrote: post #230
nerdjon wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many users actually understand the issues at stake, though? I don't say that to be patronizing but it's a nuanced, thorny problem. I bet if you simply asked "do you think it should be allowed to download porn apps?" a good number of users (if asked anonymously!) would say yes. How many users understand why they can't subscribe to Netflix through the iOS app? How many know what Apple's cut even is? The iPhone is…

> if I want to play Fortnite I will have to get the epic game store when that comes out. Is that really a choice for me? Yes? So far Apple hasn't had any trouble making that choice for you, letting Epic offer another option is not equivalent to taking away choices. You might as well be complaining that Epic or Apple's EULA is limiting your decision. It's a you problem.

Epic was the one that made choices that pushed apple to remove Fortnite.

Let's not twist history and say that Apple just suddenly chose to remove Fortnite. Epic made certain choices likely knowing what the outcome would be.

Epic is the one that is removing my choice to play Fortnite through the App Store if I choose. If I want to play Fortnite on my iPhone I will have no choice but to use the store.

So I have the choice I want to make "Do I want to play Fortnite" and then the choice I am forced to make by the developers "Do I want to download the Epic store".

That is removing choice from me.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#242

Post by littlestymaar »

nerdjon wrote: post #226
littlestymaar wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The walled garden is why I chose an iPhone It's obviously not the case. Not you, not anyone else. You obviously aren't mad about how unsafe MacOs is because Apple doesn't restrict installation on it. And you shouldn't be mad that the iPhone walled garden is no more, you did not buy it for that reason. It's somehow concerning that the company has so much grasp on your perception of reality that you are spitting out…

Please don't tell me what is and is not the case for myself, I clearly said what is the case for me and maybe instead of trying to explain why I supposedly feel differently you actually ask why those platforms are different. I use my iPhone and Mac very differently. All of the apps on my Mac were a single purchase, I don't need to worry about dark patterns there because I just own what I have. The mobile market is in…

> I clearly said what is the case for me

You said it, yes. That means that's what you now believe. Not that it's necessarily true.

> All of the apps on my Mac were a single purchase, I don't need to worry about dark patterns there because I just own what I have.

Are you using a firewall to block software updates? If not, you're still within reach of the developer and they can pull the rug under your feet.

> Meaning I am more at the mercy of dark patterns by the developers.

The developer cannot force you to move out if the apple app store in the first place! (Which is far from bulletproof when it comes to dark patterns anyway).

If you want to stay in the safe corner of the web, just keep buying through the Apple App store! Like almost everyone does with the Android playstore.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#243

Post by generalizations »

HideousKojima wrote: post #238
generalizations wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the free market has already shown that users prefer the walled garden, because they keep buying iPhones. If you don't like the App Store limitation, then you're free to go buy an Android.

>Except that the free market has already shown that users prefer the walled garden, because they keep buying iPhones. That's assuming they're buying iPhones because of the walled garden and not because of other reasons.

Yes, and I think that the benefits gained by the walled garden are a big part of the iPhone's popularity. It's simple, it works, the scams are kept to a minimum, and it's a consistent, well-integrated experience. Those are all true of iPhones because of the walled garden; Android can't boast any of that.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#244

Post by kristjansson »

jimmaswell wrote: post #218
concinds wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't overcomplicate it. They want to preserve their Services revenue, because Tim Cook is a bean-counter and wants to maintain the profit margin. "After Steve" by Tripp Mickle provides some background. Many Apple indie devs and fanboys are literally screaming. I bet many people @Apple are too. There are so many things the company could do to regain geek-cred. Package manager and windowing on macOS. Align Mac App Sto…

> VPs seem to think they're making products only for the stereotypical technophobic grandpa, rather than power users. Hasn't Apple always been "computers for people who don't want to think about computers", while power users finding the tech interesting is just an accident?

That's exactly who they're making products for. Buy it, hand it over, and kids from age 1 to 92 will be just fine. Developer interest in Apple is the product of macOS being incidentally a Real UNIX, the hardware being second to none, and the aforementioned market of kids 1-92 being quite large.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#245

Post by nerdjon »

nullwarp wrote: post #235
nerdjon wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I am mistaken, there is nothing here that says a developer has to continue to also have their app on the App Store and allow purchasing through the App Store in addition to their own billing. Meaning, no I actually won't be able to use my iPhone as I always did once this becomes normalized and accepted. Please correct me if I am wrong about what the rule for this actually is.

Such a weird take, complaining that a trillion dollar company might no longer be your personal guardian who gets to decide what you are allowed access to. All you want is Apple to continue fucking over the people who build the software just so you aren't slightly inconvenienced. Bravo.

I would not call dark patterns that many developers take as a "slight inconvenience".

I agree with some of the restrictions on what is allowed on the App Store, like porn and browsers. But that is a different topic than having other app stores.

My concern here is billing, we know that developers will abuse this. They have done it and I have personally been in many meetings about user retention when they try to cancel.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#246

Post by p_l »

amne wrote: post #221

Why isn't making the iPhone unavailable for sale in Europe not an option?

Because locking yourself from 1/6th of global economy is a non-starter when chasing returns and stock price, which are also the reasons why Apple is pulling such moves in the first place.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#247

Post by gvurrdon »

hellcow wrote: post #195

This is likely my last iPhone. Apple’s behavior in opposing their own customers is unacceptable. I’ll switch to a Pixel running GrapheneOS, where I can run “real Firefox” and any other software I choose.

Same here. But, I'd like to wait until iOS 18 so that text messages from various contacts are less painful.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#248

Post by deergomoo »

paulcole wrote: post #103
andersa wrote: post #93

What the hell is going on at Apple? It's starting to become really funny to see one obviously non-compliant malicious compliance attempt being made after another. Do they really not understand that they're no longer involved in the relationships between users and developers?

They are deeply involved. If it’s that bad for developers, drop the iPhone and develop solely for Android. Developers need the iPhone and Apple needs developers.

> Apple needs developers

Yet they are constantly making the case that third-party developers are value sponges that use “their” platform and access “their” customers for free, and give back nothing in return. They said the same towards Spotify in response to the recent ruling about anti-competitiveness in music apps.

What Apple conveniently fails to acknowledge is that they make an obscene amount of money from selling hardware, and their motivation for investing in the platform and SDKs is that more and better software leads to higher sales of hardware. (I am aware that iPhone sales have effectively peaked, which is likely exactly why they have decided that they are the sole enabler of all digital commerce on the iPhone)

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#249

Post by generalizations »

hu3 wrote: post #184
generalizations wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vote with your wallet, goes both ways. So just buy an android. Vote with your wallet! Show Apple their walled garden isn't what people want.

Yes I do prefer Android because I like being treated as an adult. So I already do that. Apple is not currently a choice given that requirement but having more choices is a win on my book so you go EU!

Some people like having the choice of a curated system, and that requires a walled garden. You're removing choices, not adding them.
Post reply on HN