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Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

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Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#241
post #91

The opsec of the people who eventually get indicted is always terrible. If you wanted to exfiltrate source code or docs, why the heck would you use the victim's own cloud storage product? You would just point a camera at your display and scroll through the desired materials, or use HDMI capture, or something along those lines.

Possibly they thought it would appear as their business-as-usual Google related traffic flows.

Rather than say, some tor IP address which would stick out.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in this example no crime even yet occurred Interviewing for a job with the prior stated intent of pilfering their IP is fraudulent.

Let the employer file civil case then.

> Let the employer file civil case then

The IP theft is a private concern. The national security implications are public. What OP describes seems worth criminal investigation.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan did the same thing before and after the world wars. This is not really that new or strange. India has been doing the same thing. Russia as well. it's standard practice to send people to more advanced countries to train and then have them come back and start companies based on what they have learned. this is why Patents only really work in local regions or within a Nation. the biggest difference is that China ha…

Now the biggest issue is to get those that train to come back. A lot of Russians chose not to, same with Indians, and Japanese. China has an extensive espionage network focused on keeping track of exchange students and make sure that they fall in line. Much more so than any other nation. have a friend from Malaysia and they had this smart idea that if you study abroad and get a PhD or Masters (as I understood it) you…

> chose not to, same with Indians

Not anymore. It's because of visa and naturalization backlogs.

When I was a kid growing up in the 90s and 2000s, it was common for Chinese nationals to naturalize and become citizens.

When the Chinese backlog reached a decade long 10-20 years ago, a lot of top tier Chinese talent decided to return to China because employment visa hell sucks and the Chinese private sector formalized and grew.

The same thing has started to happen with Indians as well (and happened to Koreans and Taiwanese in the 80s)

A Tsinghua or Jiaotong grad might have an incentive to do graduate school in the US or work here a couple years, but there's no point spending 5-7 years to naturalize when you can return to China and get funded or get tenure.

A similar thing has started happening in India as well at tier 1 IITs and then like.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be figuring out how to create a global, collective, human advantage for everyone and the planet We haven’t solved the problem of governance. The End of History seemed close in the 1990s. But we’re back to being torn between the efficiency (and short-term stability) of authoritarian models against the flexibility (and long-term stability) of democratic ones. Until we find the model that just works, this co…

You need a model that is not financed through extortion. By granting a small part of the population rights and duties that would be criminal for anyone else to perform (do you even have a right to extort, kidnap, and murder?), you are playing people against each other and perpetuating a struggle for control of the government to act on their behalf, at the expense of everyone else. governance ≠ government As long as e…

> granting a small part of the population rights and duties that would be criminal for anyone else to perform

No, I don’t want anyone to have nuclear codes. And yes, I want someone to ensure randos aren’t building nukes.

> governance ≠ government

Sure, but to the degree we’ve made progress on the problem of governance, it’s been in proving the necessity of government. Anarchist collectives far well until someone comes to take their stuff; this is basically the warlord era of any civilisation.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#245
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the spirit of your statement that no crime has occurred. But this isn't a case where someone just expressed a vague interest in a related topic of national security, but their specific intent to steal secrets and give them to an adversary. And then go ahead and interview at certain companies with that intent. This would be like someone specifically (not vaguely) stating their intent to commit a violent c…

Trade secrets aren’t national security.

They definitely can be. In the US there are many different ways in which they can overlap as a matter of law. There are myriad frameworks similar to ITAR that place a national security interest on trade secrets or block public disclosure e.g. patents (which effectively turns them into trade secrets).

Your average web dev probably isn’t familiar but navigating this is a routine consideration in deep tech.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire history of man counters this. So while you might be advocating for some Star Trek world peace fantasy, historical and present realities differ. And that reality is what leadership and everyday people live in. A zero sum game.

I think you're getting at a basic fallacy. This is not a zero sum game. This is a positive sum game. The worlds population has been steadily growing for the past 10,000 years. The quality of life has mostly increased. We're figuring out more efficient ways to extract energy from the resources around us, including the sun. We don't live in a post-scarcity world but we also don't live in a zero-sum world either.

> I think you're getting at a basic fallacy. This is not a zero sum game. This is a positive sum game.

You don't get to sweep many zero-aspects of life that are zero-sum, by calling it a fallacy, under the rug.

Many scenarios in life are game-theoretical with tradeoffs, where deviation from the greater sum results in higher rewards for individual actors. Until you solve it, you don't get to say "ItS noT ZeRo Sum!!11"

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#247
post #70
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect Google to scan the database of companies in every country continuously to see if employees are executives of them? How would this handle different people who have the same name? Disclosure: I work at Google.

> You expect Google to scan the database of companies in every country continuously to see if employees are executives of them? How would this handle different people who have the same name? > Disclosure: I work at Google. It's Google. Not a mom and pop shop, not a startup, not even a large bank. It's a massive conglomerate who's entire business model revolves around data. So yes. And same-name conflicts can be handl…

And how are they going to access Chinese databases that they are not allowed to access? It's Google, not the CIA. I wouldn't be surprised if all of that information was covered under China's broad state secrets law.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You expect Google to scan the database of companies in every country continuously to see if employees are executives of them? Um, yes? That’s among the least invasive and cheapest due diligence they could do.

Perhaps just perhaps the task is a bit harder than what you make it sound like Instances of people sharing the same name are far more common in china than elsewhere. For example there are more than 30 thousand people called "Wang Wei". The fact is complicated by the fact that the writing systems are different and transliteration errors are commonplace.

To add to that, I don't think Google (or any American company) would ask for foreign ID numbers. Your SSN can be used for a background check in the USA, but not in China.

Re: Ex-Google engineer charged with stealing trade secrets

#249
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't "give up their nationality". Chinese government's position is that once Chinese always Chinese, and emmigrating doesn't affect that. They will still come after your family on mainland. Or use their "local police" forces stationed in most western countries to harass you in your new location.

> They can't "give up their nationality" You can, but it's a fucking pain in the ass, and when Zero COVID kicked in, the Chinese Embassies and Consulates stopped processing anything.

Its a formality they can ignore though. At least they have recent precedence with that Swedish bookseller who was abducted in Thailand a decade or so back.
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