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I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

ifuckinghatejira.com

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Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#241

Post by ClimaxGravely »

vundercind wrote: post #235
ClimaxGravely wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) Is that the equivalent of a slack huddle?

Nah, you can schedule meetings (like, coordinate it through Outlook with a scheduler tool and the invite emails auto send and all that) in a chat, but not a Team channel. Chats in Teams are not in a Team (god the terminology gets confusing) but are more ad-hoc, like direct or group messages. You can pin chats but there’s no “THIS is THE ‘general’ chat for project X, this is THE support chat” et c that looks the same…

I had no idea but I haven't used teams since about 2018. I guess it might have changed considerably.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#244

Post by turtles3 »

kagevf wrote: post #77
bschne wrote: post #8

I always wonder how much of this sort of thing is disdain for the specific tool vs. disdain for what working in a mid-to-large org. is like and the overhead it usually brings with it.

I've wondered the same thing about Microsoft Teams. Is Teams as horrible as people say, or do they just hate it because it's what they happen to use for video meetings at work? Conversely, I don't hear much hate for zoom.

The worst thing that I've found with teams is the latency in a video call is _just slightly_ too high (and noticeably higher than Google meet and zoom). I find this latency to be absolutely critical in keeping the flow of conversation and preventing people from accidentally talking over each other. After seeing a forced switch to teams when the whole company was WFH, it was extremely obvious the detrimental impact it had on every meeting. It's the most basic technical aspect of the product, it doesn't matter how great the rest is if you don't nail it. That's why I hate teams.

Also the ux is pretty bad.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#245

Post by fennecfoxy »

blueskythinking wrote: post #112
ta1243 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a mid-to-large org. The more agile part use tools like jira and slack. The older part (established in the 1920s) use Remedy and Teams. Jira is brilliant. It is team-led. Different teams have different approaches, some love all the features like components, versions, issue types, assignee, kanban boards, scrumms, reports etc etc. Others like my team use it with subject/description/comments. You make the tool…

If by “team lead” you mean the noisy few set the rules and the rest of us have to deal with it, then that also matches my experience of Jira.

Isn't that just human interactions in general? Society etc.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#246

Post by ta1243 »

VonGallifrey wrote: post #220
michaelt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you at least agree that it's bad that Jira is slow as shit, in both its hosted and on-prem forms? Management didn't insist on that .

It isn't slow for me. So no, not in my experience.

Yup, we have a self-hosted one and speed is fine.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#247

Post by ta1243 »

zac23or wrote: post #176
ta1243 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a mid-to-large org. The more agile part use tools like jira and slack. The older part (established in the 1920s) use Remedy and Teams. Jira is brilliant. It is team-led. Different teams have different approaches, some love all the features like components, versions, issue types, assignee, kanban boards, scrumms, reports etc etc. Others like my team use it with subject/description/comments. You make the tool…

“Jira is brilliant” I've never read that sentence before! My feeling is... developers hate Jira, managers love Jira. And that is expected. The tendency is for things loved by managers to be hated by developers, such as meetings, metrics, etc. An example of a very misused metric: In one of my jobs, managers started using Scrum Poker results as a productivity measure. “My team scored 100 points in the last sprint.” Ima…

I use jira, I do not use points, sprints, scrums, etc

Jira doesn't require those features. My workflow is "Ready, On Hold, In Progress, Done". It's a glorified task list with assignees, tagging, emails etc, that's corporate-wide -- no need to get random people to get accounts, everyone has one. All over our documentation and configs are references to "TKT-1234", which explains the background to a specific thing far more than an inline comment could.

It does the job just fine, I didn't need to jump through any hoops to get it working like that.

The alternate system engineers in other departments use is email. Tracking things in email is awful.

You can use Jira for far worse things, but that's not a problem with the tool, that's a problem with the culture.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#248

Post by ta1243 »

cqqxo4zV46cp wrote: post #239
psunavy03 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tendency is for things loved by managers to be hated by developers, such as meetings, metrics, etc. There's an unfortunate tendency for some people to scoff at the immutable fact that to write software, you have to talk to other human beings. And that if a company is paying you good money to do it, they are going to want to know when it will be done and what ROI they are getting on your salary. Sure, there are…

It’s why I just can’t take some dev communities seriously. Too many immature / inexperienced people will talk eachother into thinking that their “I should just be able to sit here and code!” mentality is justified or even viable. Who the hell else gets to work like that? The utter hubris.

I work like that, but I love occasional meetings to catch up with peers. My immediate team of 3 people has a twice-weekly "standup" meeting, and communicate through the rest of the week in a slack channel. I have a weekly catchup with another team and a monthly with a couple more, and once every 3 months a large pan-org community get together in person, typically with a beer and curry.

Of course there are terrible meetings too. I currently have a PM who had 5 meetings with me a week on two minor projects. I don't go to those meetings, I just update the jira when there's an update. I need to do that as I am working on 40 things at a time and I don't have the mental capacity to remember how many plates I'm spinning. That's far more efficient, it's asynchronous, easy to keep on top of.

I see some colleagues struggling to get anything done because they are in meetings 6 hours a day, they go from one meeting to another without even a pause for a break. In those meetings they then try to half-listen and send emails about other subjects. They don't need to be in those meetings.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#249

Post by ta1243 »

a1o wrote: post #167
vundercind wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teams would be fine with two things: 1) Let a Team channel be a normal-ass chat instead of some weird forum-in-a-chat-interface. Shit gets lost. Creating a new post feels very formal and high friction, because it’ll push everything else out of view (another, minor problem: teams’ padding and whitespace is way out of control). Make it configurable! That’s ok. The weird chat-as-forum thing is fine for a very low-traffi…

There is probably some feature request somewhere in Microsoft weird tech channel with thousands of comments and upvotes and some MS person appearing every three years to let us know they "are looking into it".

It's probably somewhere in a Teams channel, and nobody in microsoft can actually find it.

Re: I Fucking Hate Jira (2022)

#250

Post by ta1243 »

kstrauser wrote: post #64
ta1243 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a mid-to-large org. The more agile part use tools like jira and slack. The older part (established in the 1920s) use Remedy and Teams. Jira is brilliant. It is team-led. Different teams have different approaches, some love all the features like components, versions, issue types, assignee, kanban boards, scrumms, reports etc etc. Others like my team use it with subject/description/comments. You make the tool…

I can personally vouch that Jira can be inflicted on engineers in a “KPI led” way.

And a screwdriver can be used to destroy. Doesn't mean that's the only way to use it.
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