Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 457 posts

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#241

Post by wahnfrieden »

crazygringo wrote: post #207
wahnfrieden wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because business owners and politicians working for the economy decide that. It’s fun to come up with rules that would fix imbalance but curious how you think such rules can happen without deeper (however achievable) changes to society predicating them outside current norms (eg voting and waiting; maybe organizing around getting more people to vote and wait with you)

Voters decide things too. But that's not just a hot-button issue for any voter I've ever met. Why not? It actually wouldn't be too hard to implement without wage theft in either direction -- mandate some kind of escrow functionality by law, built into direct deposit. In other words, if you work daily, the money is deposited in "escrow mode" at the start of your shift, and you can verify it in your banking app. But it…

Voters are also disenfranchised from other forms of coordinated action (which have historically caused many of the nice things we enjoy today) by the unresolved tension of belief in voting’s power and its routinely disappointing results

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#242

Post by cscurmudgeon »

pierat wrote: post #235
willcipriano wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low income mothers can get formula from the government. https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic It was probably all theft to exchange for drugs. During the pandemic there was a formula shortage and allowing theft rather than punishing it probably ensured some children went without unnecessarily.

Any means testing (and I do mean ANY) will always exclude people who have an actual need who'll never be able to get. And really, if 1 out of a thousand "cuts drugs" with formula, so be it. At least that's non-toxic... and frankly, laughable as DARE propaganda.

Here is a list of places with free baby formula and stuff in the Bay Area most without means testing:

https://www.211bayarea.org/sanfrancisco/food/food-programs/f...

https://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/san_francisco_and_s...

Just recently there was a baby formula shortage. And we were not prosecuting gangs stealing formula. Shameless and laughable.

https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/infantandtoddlernutrition/form...

Edit: To person calling me a techbro below, I can't provide data for 1000s of cities in the US, genius. Feel free to do so.

Non tech folks also live in the US (you would know if you live in the US). Also look up why we are discussing the Bay Area.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#243

Post by stevespang »

spamizbad wrote: post #9

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

[dead]

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#244

Post by mjburgess »

phpisthebest wrote: post #238
mjburgess wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

err.. no, free markets are state constructions. By default, an unregulated market becomes non-free essentially immediately, as cartels form (indeed, as cartels of cartels form, hence states ). As Hobbes observed, in the state of nature there is no motivation to remain as an individual, so you form groups in order for self-protection. In an "anarchical market" you end up with incredible levels of monopolisation (etc.)…

well now we will get in a Hobbes vs Locke, I am more Lockean I disagree, and history has shown that free markets absent government control doe not instantly become monopolized, and infact through out most of history monopolize form when the government regulates the most Look at todays market as an example, the most competition is present in markets where the government has the least influence, where markets like ener…

I know of no example in all of human history of a free market without a state, at least one of more than a short period -- so my position is very weak here, if you can show only one, i'd have to at least modify it. Yet, I bet you cannot.

Neutrally, using the term "anarchical market", i'd say that these markets are empheral. Everyone them has to act against rules which are not in their self-interest, it's highly unclear why a subgroup of market participants wouldnt immediately collectivise and outcompete everyone else.

Collectivisation is human's superpower, and the obvious an immediate thing basically everyone does (hence: mafia, warlords, cartels, etc.). It would be remarkable to see this anarchical market of yours remain free for very long, so I'd gladly hear of one case.

The main mechanism against collectivisation is that some biggest baddest collective decides to prohibit it (hence the state). There may be others, but I can think of none that would operate under anarchical conditions.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#245

Post by pierat »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #242
pierat wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any means testing (and I do mean ANY) will always exclude people who have an actual need who'll never be able to get. And really, if 1 out of a thousand "cuts drugs" with formula, so be it. At least that's non-toxic... and frankly, laughable as DARE propaganda.

Here is a list of places with free baby formula and stuff in the Bay Area most without means testing: https://www.211bayarea.org/sanfrancisco/food/food-programs/f... https://www.needhelppayingbills.com/html/san_francisco_and_s... Just recently there was a baby formula shortage. And we were not prosecuting gangs stealing formula. Shameless and laughable. https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/infantandtoddlernutrition/form...…

The Bay Area is not the USA, techbro.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#246

Post by micromacrofoot »

the hypocritical nature of companies that employ wage theft is something else too... companies like walmart, walgreens, cvs, etc are largely responsible for "organized retail crime" being showcased in the media... and they use this complaint when they close locations in poor neighborhoods and create pharmacy deserts (and to be clear, it seems to be a big lie)... but they'll try to get their outrageously larger wage theft settlements buried

many media outlets are complicit with this, and are either getting completely fooled by these PR tactics or simply don't care

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#247

Post by Hikikomori »

sneak wrote: post #66
darth_avocado wrote: post #43

People thinking wage theft only affects lower wage workers, let me tell you how tech companies commit wage theft: 1. Having annual components to wages (RSUs, bonuses), making you work all year and firing you just before they have to pay you. 2. Having no overtime for salaried employees 3. Having employees work extra responsibilities that are not part of the job description by promising promotions and then not giving…

Any promises not made in writing and signed by both parties aren’t promises. None of these are theft, just poor business skills on the part of the employees. Get it in writing so you can sue later, or don’t ever count on it. It’s basic business skills.

Scams shouldn't be illegal as you're stupid if you get scammed, just get smarter idiots.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#248

Post by hobotime »

Aurornis wrote: post #232
avgcorrection wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. So like a much-dreaded union for employers except it’s underhanded and illegal.

The idea of industry-wide "no-hire lists" is a bogeyman that bad employers use to control young employees who don't yet know any better. At worst, you won't get a positive recommendation from an employer like this if somebody calls and asks. The idea that employers are busy maintaining "no-hire lists" and collecting names from all of their industry peers doesn't hold up, at least not outside of maybe weird small-town…

Can confirm. There's no "no-hire lists" in the heavy construction, restaurant, and IT companies that I've seen.

However, in a small town, business owners may warn each other, and in a small bubble of companies, they may talk to each other.

And if you need a reference, better pick a fellow employee. Other than that, ignore the boogeyman!

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#249

Post by wahnfrieden »

themaninthedark wrote: post #212
badcppdev wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a human responsibility to not steal from someone whatever the circumstances. And a human responsibility to not exploit people running away from a violent dangerous environment. If you only care about people with a certain piece of paper then it says something about your total lack of ethics and human compassion.

How far does this human responsibility extend? I agree don't steal and let's prosecute those who do. What about those in Mexico that steal from the the people who are fleeing violence? Why stop there, how about we do something about the violent dangerous environment? Would you support military action in Mexico and South America to try and fix the problems?

How much do you understand about US state involvement with cartels? That’s a lot of optimism placed in bombs

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#250

Post by hnburnsy »

darth_avocado wrote: post #43

People thinking wage theft only affects lower wage workers, let me tell you how tech companies commit wage theft: 1. Having annual components to wages (RSUs, bonuses), making you work all year and firing you just before they have to pay you. 2. Having no overtime for salaried employees 3. Having employees work extra responsibilities that are not part of the job description by promising promotions and then not giving…

Add long 410K match vesting schedules to that list.
Post reply on HN