Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 286 posts

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#241

Post by rootusrootus »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #194

This is of course mostly due to the giant US subsidies the federal government is offering citizens now, but the EV must be "built" in the US (Which has some loopholes and strange definitions in it) I dont quite understand why the sales of EVs in the US is considered to have flattened out according to some statistics.

> I dont quite understand why the sales of EVs in the US is considered to have flattened out according to some statistics.

Politics. Some people want it to be true, so they conflate an easing of the growth rate as an actual rate reduction. It could also be innocent ignorance of statistics.

The real hang up with EVs right now is primarily price. They're just reaching the point where TCO is a wash. Historically, most people are extremely responsive to fuel cost advantages, so as the capital cost comes down most people will switch. At least the ones who can charge at home, which is most.

I do feel bad for people who live in places with high electricity prices, like California and Massachusetts. Makes it harder to win on TCO, but at least the convenience factor is still there. But for those who can access sub-10 cent per kWh pricing, it's nice to spend a few hundred dollars per year for fuel.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#242

Post by oblio »

WorldMaker wrote: post #126
seadan83 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have citations? I can think of alternative & plausible explanations: - the used car industry is just barren post-pandemic. Prices are up and inventory is super low [1] - EVs are generally not that old! Why put a BEV up as a used car when it's just a few years old? The average age of a used car is 6.1 years (according to CBC in Sep-2023) [2]. Further, that 'used car' age is up from 4 years, which further indica…

That CNBC article points out one of the big sea changes in the fast recent jumps from a used car average of 3 years (for decades prior to ~2017) to 4 years (prior to 2019) to 6 years is a big change by rental car companies to hold rental fleets longer. The biggest sea change for rental companies over the last few years has been a switch to a higher balance of BEVs in their fleets. It certainly seems to me to be causa…

> There's a very long tail of BEVs already on the road.

At best they're 0.5% of the total number of vehicles in use.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#243

Post by rootusrootus »

njarboe wrote: post #197
ThinkBeat wrote: post #194

This is of course mostly due to the giant US subsidies the federal government is offering citizens now, but the EV must be "built" in the US (Which has some loopholes and strange definitions in it) I dont quite understand why the sales of EVs in the US is considered to have flattened out according to some statistics.

All, or almost all EV brands in the US are selling less this year than last. Except Tesla, which has about 65% market share.

You know this in February?

The real point is that Tesla has been driving prices lower than other manufacturers are willing to stomach, and that resistance to price matching shows up as cars sitting on lots.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#244

Post by LightBug1 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #236
LightBug1 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, try doing it via lease ... the supposed 'seamless' experience completely falls down ... I've just spent 5 months handholding a model 3 order, only for it to fall down at the end when Tesla tried to stiff our company for £3k. Ended up leasing a BMW i5 because of the complete waste of time and hassle. I'm glad it wasn't my car but, based on the experience, I wouldn't go near that joke of a company ever again. Lost…

> I've had better experiences with conventional dealerships I don't know how. I've got dealing with conventional car dealers down to an art form, and it still isn't even remotely comparable. To get a Tesla you order it online and then go in for an appointment to pick it up. Hand them the payment, they already have all the paperwork ready for signatures, they give you the key cards and offer to help you install the ap…

Maybe I had a particularly bad experience, but what you describe is what I was expecting.

What I got was 5 months of hot potato juggling, inept delivery advisors (which I later discovered to be because they had no power and rigidly stuck to their what their portal says), confusion and countless hours spent handholding a very simple order. Only for it to collapse at the end because pricing changed (BECAUSE of delays when Tesla messed up the order).

Anyway ... joke company, and I'll not go near them again.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#245

Post by rootusrootus »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #196
ThinkBeat wrote: post #194

This is of course mostly due to the giant US subsidies the federal government is offering citizens now, but the EV must be "built" in the US (Which has some loopholes and strange definitions in it) I dont quite understand why the sales of EVs in the US is considered to have flattened out according to some statistics.

My understanding is this is model and region dependent. Example: the Ford lightning has tepid demand in a lot of US markets and a multi-year waiting list in Canada. (I realize you're focused on US, but so much of the auto supply chain is coordinated between the 2 countries)

I like the Lightning but as a practical matter it's a little bit of a tough sell. Pickups are so terribly inefficient to begin with that it needs a boatload of battery just to have acceptable range. That's expensive, and also increases the time it takes to charge. I commend Ford for the ambition to make an electric version of their best selling vehicle, but I think that segment will be stronger when 200+ kWh batteries are affordable and flattish 350kW charge rates are the norm.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#246

Post by oblio »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #127
trgn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to be almost daily news stories about huge capital investment in manufacturing in the US, a couple billion here, a couple billion there. Was I just blind to these 5-10 years ago?

Geopolitics: China's sudden shift to authoritarianism under the new emperor has everyone fleeing for the exits as the US and Europe abandon the project to bring China into the club. Economics, Neoliberalism is dead. The pandemic killed it. Policy makers well understand the economy can tolerate a lot of disruption. Politics: Dispossessed voters turning to fascism has sharpened politicians and sane business leaders min…

> Politics: Dispossessed voters turning to fascism has sharpened politicians and sane business leaders minds.

FYI, many if not most business leaders were Fascist or Nazi sympathizers or at least admired various key aspects of their ideologies.

Don't rely on them doing the right thing.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#247

Post by rootusrootus »

DanielSantos wrote: post #169
sandworm101 wrote: post #138

>> Environmental groups have long criticized Toyota for being slow to move toward fully electric vehicles, instead clinging to gas-electric hybrid technology. When you run a company as large and old as Toyota, you always hedge your bets. There are some other options to battery-powered electric vehicles (hydrogen IC). They are currently not as mature but anyone running something as big as Toyota needs to hedge against…

Exactly. Toyota's CEO also explained a few weeks ago that they need to build cars for the whole world. Many countries are not ready yet with infrastructure for electric cars. I would also add since insurance companies don't want to insure the transportation of batteries in container ships, it makes it difficult for Toyota to produce electric cars in all regions, it would mean they would always need to have a battery…

> are not ready yet with infrastructure for electric cars

The same infrastructure they need for everything else in their life. I bet they have way better access to electricity than they do hydrogen. Or even gasoline, frankly. Solar panels are cheap.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#248

Post by malfist »

J0EKR wrote: post #228
jmoak3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Louisville checking in, spent a lot of time in Georgetown and can confirm this is likely just more work on the Camry plant. Toyota has been good to the area. Off topic, but is there a popular tech meetup in the state? Moved back a year and some change ago and would love to get more involved.

We have been working hard to grow the bluegrass tech community (mainly focused on Lexington area right now). The following are a good place to start: - https://lextalk.tech/ - should be another one in April or may - https://www.meetup.com/The-Bluegrass-Developers-Guild on Meetup - lots of good events here - https://www.bluegrassdevs.org/ - join our slack I really suggest coffee and code. It is super chill and a great…

Wow there's more of us here than I thought. Glad to see another lexitonian!

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#249

Post by [deleted] »

downrightmike wrote: post #171
anonu wrote: post #10

Similarly, Hyundai building $8bn battery plant outside Savannah, Georgia: https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-georgia-electric-vehicle-...

Its because the south is fairly young and impoverished, so cheaper to mfg there. Down vote, but that's the reason.

[deleted]

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#250

Post by davemp »

rootusrootus wrote: post #243
njarboe wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All, or almost all EV brands in the US are selling less this year than last. Except Tesla, which has about 65% market share.

You know this in February? The real point is that Tesla has been driving prices lower than other manufacturers are willing to stomach, and that resistance to price matching shows up as cars sitting on lots.

I was looking at Hyundai’s Ioniq 6, but at $38k you get less HP and meaningful/comfort features than my 2015 v6 accord that I bought in 2018 for $19k (now worth $18k).

I only drive like 3-6k miles/yr anyways.

tbf the car market seems to have out stripped baseline inflation in general though.

Post reply on HN