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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

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241–250 of 1001 posts

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#241

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

My only experience dealing with an union as a SWE, in Germany at that, has been a negative one. It shaped my opinion on the topic.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#242

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

You add unions in tech, and then wonder why dev salaries in EU and the UK are so abysmally low.

> dev salaries in EU and the UK are so abysmally low

I don't think they are. I think salaries in the US are astronomical, and it boggles the mind how in California a 22 year old React nerd can command a salary five times higher than, say, a teacher.

It's all a matter of perspective. From my perspective, if you can sit on your sofa, build a website, and pull in €80k, you're doing just fine.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#244

Seriously, why people in tech are opposed to unions? In Europe, unions and Betriebsrat (works committee) are the norm. Why not in the US?

I've never heard of anyone using unions in software in europe. Maybe something popular in just one country?

The problem with unions is that if you are a top performer it's harder to get promoted, if you're crap it's harder to get rid of you.

Overall it's great for non productive people who can pay a little and coast, great for everyone else. I can understand unions for low paid jobs the should be done by machines (eg. factory workers) but it doesn't make sense for knowledge work where performance has huge impact.

Oh and they want money to do that.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#246
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter has lost 70% of its value since Elon took over.

According to rando analysts who don't have a stake. Note that Twitter pre X as a business was unsustainable and I don't think it ever made a net profit in aggregate over its lifetime. It was all selling the dream even before the acquisition.

> According to rando analysts who don't have a stake.

Says another rando who doesn't have a stake.

It was starting to be sustainable: https://www.businessofapps.com/data/twitter-statistics/

I don't know exactly what they did in 2020 to mess up their numbers, but 2017 - 2021 shows a company that was stabilizing at ok profit margins.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not blatantly clear that US's salaries are due to lack of developer unions.

Not that alone, but a lot of the factors that hold European companies back compared to American ones when it comes to innovation come from the same ideology, whether it appears as regulation, taxation or a number of other factors aimed at improving safety and comfort, even if it comes at the cost of liberty and incentive.

Have you considered that it might not be European companies "getting held back", but American companies unduly getting ahead by externalizing their negative effects onto society. Think social media and mental health, advertising and mass surveillance, Airbnb's business model vs displaced local population, proliferating gig economy vs exploited gig workers, for example.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#248
post #220
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass layoffs work when there was over-hiring (management's fault) or there was a big revenue downturn (market forces). This time it was because of over-hiring at the COVID mania. People left safer jobs to join FAANGs tempted with higher salaries and a prospect of improving their CV. And now they are dumped back into the toughest tech jobs market in 20 years. This is totally a fault of management and none of them are…

I really don't agree with this line of thinking. > Mass layoffs work when there was over-hiring Ok, let's define "over-hiring". Google... had 99k employees in 2018, 119k in 2019, 135k in 2020, 156k in 2021, 190k in 2022, 174k in 2023. and made $136b in 2018, $161b in 2019, $182b in 2020, $257b in 2021, $282b in 2022, $297b in 2023. They basically doubled their headcount to double their revenue. How is that over-hirin…

Not necessarily. If your revenue curve is trailing your hiring curve by N years, you need to stop hiring N years before your revenue curve plateaus.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#249
post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

Better put, the relationship you have with your employer is a business relation ship. It's not personal. They are not your friends, nor your enemies. It's simply a convenient arrangement between the two of you for as long as that lasts. And it might become convenient for either side to change that arrangement at any point. The more you earn, the higher the risk that at some point somebody decides that they want to sp…

And this goes both ways, employees can go out as they please. The opposite party usually get hurt when it happens (either the firing or employee go out), and usually coworkers / existing workers that get the bad things.

So in my experience, don't get too attached to company (or coworker either), and go out if things start to go south or if there's better opportunity out there.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#250
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you get to non-compete people you fire. That's an on-resignation constraint.

I'd be genuinely interested what the legal situation here would be, if that's true...

It would be rather interesting if it would be legal for me to hire somebody, then fire them the next day and they couldn't compete with me for some period of time. But then again, US employment law is rather different from EU so maybe that's possible there?
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