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Is my plane a 737 MAX?

ismyplanea737max.com

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Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#241

Post by Symbiote »

kube-system wrote: post #77

A lot of people don't realize that the fuselage of this plane isn't even made by Boeing, it's made by Spirit AeroSystems which also makes components for Airbus. We don't really know who to blame here until the investigation concludes.

> Spirit AeroSystems which also makes components for Airbus

True, but the main Spirit Aerosystems factories making Airbus components are in the UK, except for "central section panels" of the A350, which are made in the USA.

The British factories used to be BAE and Bombardier factories, so it's very possible for there to be different working methods, culture etc.

https://www.spiritaero.com/company/programs/

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#242

Post by teeray »

parkererway wrote: post #212
teeray wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fallacy of Relative Privation in this case. The correct question is: “Are you less safe on a 737 MAX than any other commercial aircraft?” The answer to this question for a properly functioning airline industry should always be “no.” Given the recent incidents, the answer to this question is, unfortunately, “yes.”

Doesn’t the answer to that question have to be less for all but one airframe? Genuinely - trying to understand the point here.

Depends what you measure. To keep things grounded in reality we can use measures involving “things about planes that airline customers universally consider bad”: the number of people killed by a model or the number of passenger items ejected from the plane during the flight.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#243

Post by dist-epoch »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #90
gruez wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>those use actual flight plan data, so will take into account any last minute aircraft changes. But at that point it's too late. I doubt people are that afraid of 737 Max that they'll cancel a flight (and forfeit their ticket) over it.

> doubt people are that afraid of 737 Max that they'll cancel a flight (and forfeit their ticket) over it Nobody rational will. But there are plenty of people with an understandable fear of flying who will create a customer-service kerfuffle over it. On the margin that might not do anything. But in aggregate it could affect how the airlines negotiate settlements from Boeing.

Everybody agrees that FAA is not what it used to be, these days the Boeing engineers are basically self-certifying their planes.

So what's irrational in not believing that 737 Max is safe?

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#244

Post by JumpCrisscross »

flashback2199 wrote: post #235
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a brand new plane? Statistically, there is no difference between a new plane and one that's been flying for 18 years [1]. Given dying because an installer fucked up feels mighty similar to dying because a maintenance tech fucked up, I don't see a rational reason to over-penalise fabrication errors to the extent that it overrules millions of successful flight miles. (Design mistakes are categorially different.) […

I'm pretty sure if you personally drove a new car off the lot and the door fell off you would not believe that quality were unchanged from your prior impression of that car company. Just because it's happening to other people doesn't make it okay to hand-wave away safety. And by the way, so far NTSB believes it's not a fabrication error but an assembly error. NTSB suspects 4 bolts were never screwed in.

> if you personally drove a new car off the lot and the door fell off you would not believe that quality were unchanged from your prior impression of that car company

As a layman, no. Were I looking for more than a Twitter level of analysis, it would be an indication for investigation. Not grounds for conclusion.

More directly, even as a layman, if I were to use that anecdote as grounds to condemn the state of car manufacturing in summa, that would be irrational.

> NTSB suspects 4 bolts were never screwed in

Source? Last I saw, they couldn't find the bolts. It takes lab work to ascertain whether they ever existed.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#245

Post by dubcanada »

caycep wrote: post #165

So - question - how much initial capital/expertise would be needed to make a new ground-up competitor to McDD-oeing, but with the engineering/quality focus of the old Boeing? I'd imagine there must be enough disgruntled aerospace engineers to create a fresh company w/ a blank slate rethink of airliner design.

It would probably take less capital/expertise to make a space rocket at this point then a airplane. There is so much red tape that unless you buy an existing airplane company you're probably never going to get sales. US gov has proven it will protect Boeing with massive tariffs if anyone besides Airbus threatens it, means you cannot sell to US companies. So you'd have to start with EU probably, and there is a fair number of established players already.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#246

Post by daedalus_j »

flashback2199 wrote: post #182
stouset wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think we can even remotely say that. From all photo evidence I’ve seen, some cushions were sucked off the seat. These cushions are designed to be removed. If a passenger was seated and wearing their seat belt, I have every faith that they would have been fine . Uncomfortable as hell but ultimately fine. I’ll bet money the NTSB report will say as much. And the point stands that the only reason this story is no…

It is trivial to see how someone sitting there not seat belted could have perished. You do understand that long stretches of flight allow you to be unseatbelted right?

I was watching a video, I believe this one (https://youtu.be/WhfK9jlZK1o?si=goQBueaF-5So3U0X) that seemed to make the case that due to the door design it is much less likely, if not impossible, for the presumed failure here to occur at cruising altitude because of the higher pressure differential.

There's a reason they tell you to always wear your seatbelt though, ranging from sudden turbulence/downdraft to sudden depressurization.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#247

Post by flashback2199 »

stouset wrote: post #233
flashback2199 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is trivial to see how someone sitting there not seat belted could have perished. You do understand that long stretches of flight allow you to be unseatbelted right?

They allow you to, but on every single flight I’ve been on in ages, the pilot makes a note that they recommend keeping your seatbelt fastened whenever you’re seated. People have been injured due to sudden and unforeseen turbulence, and it’s just a good idea in general. That said this incident occurred during the initial climb-out where seat belt use is mandatory. So yes, if a passenger was seated there and if their b…

> Nobody is saying that this isn’t a serious fuckup

TIL half the people commenting here are nobody :)

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#248

Post by tky »

Fun and all but the data isn’t necessarily accurate, or it’s only checking for MAX-9, as I looked up a MAX-8 that just landed and it said it wasn’t (which is true, it wasn’t MY flight, so gotcha?:))

If this is an actual concern you have, look up the flight on your day of travel to see what equipment you will most likely have and react accordingly.

As a fan of the TV documentary “Air Disasters” I’m more afraid of the software and the people than the hardware, and my confidence in air travel has only risen after watching dozens of episodes.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#249

Post by JohnFen »

alpb wrote: post #26

Are you less safe on a 737 MAX than driving to the airport in a car? Genuinely curious, I’m trying to understand if this whole saga is statistically significant.

> Are you less safe on a 737 MAX than driving to the airport in a car?

I don't think that's a meaningful comparison. The 737 MAX problems are related to the airplane itself. The dangers of driving are mostly related to the performance of the drivers, not the cars themselves.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#250

Post by mihaaly »

jmward01 wrote: post #40

Aviation is safe. An issue happened and appropriate steps have immediately happened and in the end an already incredibly safe industry will be even safer. If a car has an issue we don't blink and we loose nearly 40k people a year in the US alone, but a plane has an issue and we panic. Yes, panic. This is not rational or helpful and is a huge reason why aviation is so antiquated. You want flying cars? Stop panicking a…

Aviation is safe, the design and production of the 737 MAX is sloppier than most current aircrafts. Better compare to other aircrafts than to cars or bicycles. ;-)
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