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I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

iliana.fyi

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Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#241

Post by Wytwwww »

kuschku wrote: post #204
0x457 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can't tell the difference, does it matter? There is a difference in skill level distribution. If everyone playing at a highly skilled player level, then it's simply not fun and doesn't provide an opportunity to get better. Anyways, playing with cheaters isn't fun and if you want to play without them then you need anti-cheat and/or game to not be free.

But not everyone is cheating. There will always be enough players that even if you just match players based on their skill level, you'll always have someone at your own level to play with. In fact, I'd like to see the same bots developed by cheaters be used for NPCs as well.

I don't think it would be very hard to develop AI bots which can "see" through walls or one shot snipe you from 200 meters away while you're running. Why would anyone want that, though?

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#242

Post by Wytwwww »

kuschku wrote: post #240
mainde wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, yes, I think it is a problem because unfairly losing isn't as fun as fairly losing or fairly winning. Ignorance about the fairness of a game may work in a few instances but would not scale. You don't have to reach pro levels, it often only takes small assists to turn a balanced game on its head, ruining someone's experience with a game. Repeat often enough and the userbase will leave, feeling cheated or at least…

Why would you be unable to compete? The matchmaking system will still put you against users on a similar level to yourself. Whether they're your level through cheats or natively doesn't matter. A player playing cs go at 1280×720 at 30 ps on a ball mouse will always loose to one on playing at 2560×1440 240fps with a high-quality mouse. Now there's one more dimension of unfairness. But who cares? You're still going to…

> Now there's one more dimension of unfairness. But who cares? You're still going to be winning ~51% of the time, that's why matchmaking systems exist

No. That's not how it's going to work. You'll lose 100% games against cheaters Elo and then win 80% (or similar) against lower-level players you get matched against because your Elo goes down due to cheaters. Overall yeah, you might end up with a 50% win rate but that doesn't really matter.

Of course that would be more pronounced in RTS or other 1v1 or team games with small number of players (then again nobody would play them anymore because it would just be waste of time, when you're matched against a cheater because you'll be forced to waste X min before you figure that out).

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#244

Post by kuschku »

Wytwwww wrote: post #241
kuschku wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But not everyone is cheating. There will always be enough players that even if you just match players based on their skill level, you'll always have someone at your own level to play with. In fact, I'd like to see the same bots developed by cheaters be used for NPCs as well.

I don't think it would be very hard to develop AI bots which can "see" through walls or one shot snipe you from 200 meters away while you're running. Why would anyone want that, though?

You missed 90% of my comment, and I'm not entirely sure why.

1. It's easily possible to limit cheaters to the same skill level as the top human players. Send no information to the client that they don't need, prevent super-human reaction times.

2. If all cheaters can do is play at the level of the top human players, matchmaking will automatically balance the game for you without requiring any further anticheat.

3. If cheaters have bots that play at the same level as the top human players, you could use the same bots as NPCs and have much better NPC teammates and enemies in singleplayer.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#245

Post by kuschku »

Wytwwww wrote: post #242
kuschku wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you be unable to compete? The matchmaking system will still put you against users on a similar level to yourself. Whether they're your level through cheats or natively doesn't matter. A player playing cs go at 1280×720 at 30 ps on a ball mouse will always loose to one on playing at 2560×1440 240fps with a high-quality mouse. Now there's one more dimension of unfairness. But who cares? You're still going to…

> Now there's one more dimension of unfairness. But who cares? You're still going to be winning ~51% of the time, that's why matchmaking systems exist No. That's not how it's going to work. You'll lose 100% games against cheaters Elo and then win 80% (or similar) against lower-level players you get matched against because your Elo goes down due to cheaters. Overall yeah, you might end up with a 50% win rate but that…

You don't seem to understand the situation, and I'm unsure why.

If your anticheat prevents any superhuman reactions, you'll have cheaters that will be indistinguishable from the top human players.

How often do the top human players ruin your gameplay experience as an average player today?

Why would it be any different with cheaters indistinguishable from the top humans?

Matchmaking will just give cheaters a relatively high ELO so that the highest ranked matches will be cheaters playing against each other with a few of the top human players thrown into it, competing at the same level.

While for the average player, nothing will change.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#246

Post by COGlory »

developerDan wrote: post #83
hhh wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t want to tweak stuff for a week to get a comparable experience playing games to a fresh W11 install.

Why don’t people like Linux? Because it takes 8 bloody commands to do something as simple as add a new drive whereas Windows you can just open disk utility and format. I bounced off Linux a few weeks ago over this. It’s for people who want to tinker more than actually use the system.

I've literally never used commands to do anything with a disk. I open KDE Partition Manager and do everything in a really nice GUI. `

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#247

Post by colordrops »

bravetraveler wrote: post #84
colordrops wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide details on how you got gamescope working with sway? What is the full command line you used? I believe I ran into problems with it conflicting with XWayland or something like that.

Sure thing! Here's an example command line (from Steam) : env DXVK_ASYNC=1 SDL_VIDEODRIVER=x11 gamemoderun taskset --cpu-list 0-7,16-23 gamescope -W 3840 -H 2160 -r 160 -o 160 --borderless --fullscreen --rt --steam -- %command% Gamescope has become odd with the introduction of '--expose-wayland' . I think the 'SDL_VIDEODRIVER=x11' part may be key; I didn't need this before, but now I often do. Not every game requires…

Thanks, definitely appreciate this. I tried the line plus many variations without luck. Perhaps my video card is just too old (GTX 1050)

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#248

Post by bravetraveler »

colordrops wrote: post #247
bravetraveler wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure thing! Here's an example command line (from Steam) : env DXVK_ASYNC=1 SDL_VIDEODRIVER=x11 gamemoderun taskset --cpu-list 0-7,16-23 gamescope -W 3840 -H 2160 -r 160 -o 160 --borderless --fullscreen --rt --steam -- %command% Gamescope has become odd with the introduction of '--expose-wayland' . I think the 'SDL_VIDEODRIVER=x11' part may be key; I didn't need this before, but now I often do. Not every game requires…

Thanks, definitely appreciate this. I tried the line plus many variations without luck. Perhaps my video card is just too old (GTX 1050)

Happy to share - sorry to hear it didn't help.

Nvidia and Wayland are long-troubled friends. The age of the device may or may not contribute...

If you make the command line end with '%command% |& tee /tmp/game.log', you should get some info in '/tmp/game.log'. That may offer some insight

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#249

Post by glitchcrab »

doublepg23 wrote: post #239
glitchcrab wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, Arch is not a good My First Linux for sure. I would never suggest it to someone without a decent bit of experience under their belt.

On the other hand, I learned a lot as a newbie. Make mistakes, get messy, etc.

This is true, I guess it's very dependent on the use you have for the machine. In my case i migrated from Ubuntu to arch on my work machine when I had a week off - obviously I needed it to work otherwise I would be in some trouble the following Monday.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#250

Post by 0x457 »

glitchcrab wrote: post #178
0x457 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because plenty of arch users just copy and paste things from arch wiki and stackoverflow without thinking.

Agreed, Arch is not a good My First Linux for sure. I would never suggest it to someone without a decent bit of experience under their belt.

I used to run arch on my desktop for a while because it was the closest to thing to FreeBSD. Didn't use Linux on the desktop before (well, went through a few distros within a month).

Never had any issues with updating or using it, but it's because I have set up everything myself and never touched AUR. Still nuked it favor on FreeBSD and then NixOS eventually tho.

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