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How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

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Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#241

Post by bubblematrix »

csomar wrote: post #237
jimmaswell wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it;…

Have you actually been to Europe? Paris/London has a few pickpockets problem but nothing come close to the violence in the states. And you can’t win when it comes to food. Most US food is garbage unless you are paying top dollars.

My last trip to Paris was 1 year ago and it was pretty bad compared to NYC, Los Angeles, and San Francisco for the average tourist - especially at night.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#242

Post by bubblematrix »

agubelu wrote: post #111
jimmaswell wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it;…

It's a matter of cultural differences and expectations. Only American cities are like American cities. If you travel anywhere else expecting everything to be just like America you'll be hugely dissapointed.

This doesn't make sense.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#243

Post by adev_ »

Naijoko wrote: post #238
Dalewyn wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Globish English" Yes yes. I English speak very easy. I English hear too very easy. Easy understand. Can talk each other good just simple words. English very good. *Ahem* Basically, the built-in error correction functionality in English is bloody phenomenal . Literally anyone with a passing understanding and skill in English can use it to communicate effectively. This feature is seldom seen in most other languages l…

many languages have this feature. For example Russian or German. You can put in the words, with most words missing, in any order and somehow someone will get it. France cant do this. Why... I dont know why. Maybe because the are more desciptive.

> France cant do this. Why... I dont know why. Maybe because the are more desciptive.

I would bet that a part of it can probably be blamed more on Parisian being Parisian than on the French themselves :)

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#244

Post by bubblematrix »

Auracle wrote: post #226
Daishiman wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but the staff at American restaurants is extremely overbearing and come across as endlessly annoying. I can ask for water or extra dishes if I need them. The necessity for tips is visible from a mile away.

When visiting Europe I've literally had to get up and find my waitress after not seeing her for 40+ minutes. I'll take tip culture any day...in sit down restaurants, at least.

Same, in Paris we've encountered the same hour-long "where's the waiter"

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#245

Post by Beldin »

qwytw wrote: post #181
fknorangesite wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That forces me to drink beer all the time My opinion of American tourists is such that I can't tell if this is a joke, and I'm Canadian , ffs.

Well.. I'm European, it's only half a joke though.

Maybe the three of you should go to a bar and get this joke over with.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#246

Post by flappyeagle »

jimmaswell wrote: post #92
Swizec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had extraordinary luck with broken French in France. If you start in French and do your best, a lot of people suddenly speak fluent English. Especially in metro areas. But the experience does not compare to traveling with my partner who speaks fluent zero-accent French. Paris turns into a different much nicer city when you pair with a native speaker. That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in US…

Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it;…

Because it’s better in every way you didnt list. Have you never been to a European capital? The quality of life enjoyed there is amazing.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#247

Post by oefrha »

junofan wrote: post #234
lukev wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are are literally describing a "lingua franca" here. And there's no evidence that English is special in it's ability serve as a lingua franca. In previous eras, other languages held this role (e.g, French, hence the term "lingua franca"). The dominance of English can be far more certainly attributed to the geopolitical dominance of english-speaking nations...

What evidence are you looking for? No despot on Earth has managed to stamp it out, unlike countless other languages. You can say things like lingua franca and everyone knows what you’re talking about. There aren’t any pronouns that depend on social status. It’s got a phonetic alphabet. It’s just a natural choice for commerce and knowledge-sharing.

You need to provide evidence that “built-in error correction functionality in English is bloody phenomenal” compared to other languages, because you can communicate with simple words and broken grammar just fine in every language I know.

> Yes yes. I English speak very easy. I English hear too very easy. Easy understand. Can talk each other good just simple words. English very good.

Pretty easy to “translate” that to a broken yet still understandable version of other languages.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#248

Post by bubblematrix »

Swizec wrote: post #107
jimmaswell wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it;…

> why exactly would I want to visit Europe? That’s okay, we don’t want you. I lived the first 28 years of my life in the downtown historic area of an increasingly touristy European capital and American tourists were always the worst :) The Chinese tourists can be frustrating because they travel in tight packs and take up a lot of room, but at least they understand they’re not visiting an amusement park and are not th…

This makes zero sense.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#249

Post by throwaway290 »

adev_ wrote: post #192
grecy wrote: post #11

Learning French while exploring West Africa was enormously good fun. For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. Nobody ever corrected my pronunciation or criticized me for my bad grammar and lack of vocabulary. (Cough, France, Cough). Thanks to all the encouragement and positivity I picked it up pretty quickly, and thoroughly enj…

> For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. I think this is currently pretty typical in any language. In my experience, Non-native speakers are much more resilient to strong accents and broken grammar. Probably because they passed themselves by this step. I worked in a research laboratory with >100 nationalities: It was extremel…

Opposite in my experience... English is my second language, I'm pretty fluent but I just can't understand strong accents.

I quit freelancing for a startup once because I missed half of their French English on meetings. Nowadays we have meetings with Mandarin Chinese and French and while a few of them have good English when others talk I give up.

Meanwhile with the same people native speakers from US and UK have no issues. I am amazed at how they can parse any gibberish thrown at them.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#250

Post by Naijoko »

kashunstva wrote: post #205
dudul wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French. It is not out of malice. It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. A lot of very different words sound similar. A very simple grammatical mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence. And yeah, it's probably kind of the same in English, but French is not the linga franca English is today (see what…

> It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. Is there any evidence that French has some unique qualities that render it unusually difficult to understand when not spoken by a someone fluent in the language? I’m reasonably competent in French and if there is such a feature, I don’t see it.

I speak fluent german and french. And I think yes. French has way less words then german or english. And for many things we dont have words but more desciptions. And french feeles more compressed in the sense that I cant take any word out of the sentence without taking the sense away. In english and German broken sentences still make sense if the context is given.

And some words to Paris. Yes people there are rude! But you have to understand that most People in France live there and WORK there. They give a fuck about tourism because there is so much other work there the town could skip on it. Thats why they are anoid by tourists. They go to work and some people ask them for things they dont care because they have to go to work. Paris is a dream in Summertime because so many people leave Paris because of summer vacations that it is totaly empty.

And yes American tourists are something special. You can see them 100meter away beeing confused why Paris is building houses in such an old fashioned way.

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