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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#241

Post by dang »

whycome wrote: post #218
dang wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in touch with several Israeli HNers who are in much the same position as you describe, and I admire their, and your, capacity to stay open despite being under orders of magnitude more pressure than most of us here. This is the spirit I'm asking for commenters to find in themselves before posting. (Edit: Lest this seem like an expression of bias: I've been in touch with HNers on the other side of the conflic…

> I've been in touch with HNers on the other side of the conflict as well This thinking kind of reinforces what you're trying to stay away from. There are not just 'two sides' to this. And I'm not sure what you would envision as an HNer from the "other side": someone in support of Hamas? In support of the Palestinian people? I'm only commenting here because I think the bias you fear expressing can still kind of appea…

You're of course right that there are many more than two sides to the topic, but there's a strong tendency for users (being human) to identify with one or the other side in this war, and that's what I was referring to. I take your point that my wording was unclear there, and even a grain of unclarity is pretty dangerous in this context.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#242

Post by [deleted] »

skyyler wrote: post #11

The things I've read about happening in Gaza are horrific. I'm ashamed that my taxes are funding this. It doesn't feel like there's much that can be done to change that. AIPAC has a very serious influence on our government and I worry that its impact is just leading to more deaths and more suffering.

[deleted]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#243

Post by jfengel »

ameminator wrote: post #117
ardit33 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'll let your comment speak for itself. We did give lots of aid to Ukraine and we somehow were able to have discussions about whether we should continue to do so, in a relatively civilized manner. [0] Somehow, when it comes to Israel and/or Palestine, all nuance gets lost, my "side" is "right", and the other "side" is an unholy abomination, morally disgusting or some other thing without room for earnest discussion. I…

It's hard to look at the events of October 7 and not conclude that they are "unholy abomination, morally disgusting".

It may be that they were provoked by equally abominable behavior by the other side. I'll leave that to each person's conscience. But it's quite undeniable that at least one side committed unspeakable atrocities, and there's no merit in saying "Oh, there's no point in demonizing them just because they disagree".

This isn't a difference of opinion. There is actual violence going on, like real horror-movie stuff. It may be that both sides are demonic, but there's no way to make the case that neither side is.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#244

Post by edanm »

rich_sasha wrote: post #152
megaman821 wrote: post #78

Taken in isolation there is nothing wrong with this type of reporting, the IDF should be held to high standards. In the context of the Israeli/Palestine conflict, there is a tendency to hold Israel to a much higher standard and excuse the Palestine side as if they were naive children. I don't see how that could possibly set up any lasting peace. Israel will become more deaf to outsiders, and Palestinians will not be…

I think there is good reason to hold Israel to a higher standard. It is by many metrics one of the most sophisticated states in the whole world. It has one of the highest fractions of people with higher education, it is a highly innovative economy. It is the second largest country of origin for NASDAQ stocks - US being the first one - despite being small by numbers at around 10m people. Whereas the Palestinian territ…

I completely agree that Israel should be held (and hold itself) to a higher standard than Hamas.

I think one thing Israelis... dislike... is that often Israel is held to higher standards than every other country on Earth, is held to impossible standards. And when it falls short of those standards - it is considered proof that Israel is evil.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#245

Post by gerash »

I don't want to pick sides in this sad generational conflict and I can see each side has their points but I want this parasitic Israel-US relationship to end.

AIPAC has worked hard over the years to make any politicians with the slightest opposition to Israel to be unelectable. I don't see how that's ok. They pretty much own the US government at federal and state levels. They have passed laws at the state level where boycotting Israeli goods are now illegal (how is that law even constitutional?)

So the first step for ordinary citizens is to make anyone supported by AIPAC unelectable. The billions of dollars / year of aid to Israel, Egypt, etc. that could be spent domestically instead also needs to be cut.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#246

Post by psipisi »

ido wrote: post #48
dang wrote: post #2

All: if you're going to comment in this thread, please do not do so in the spirit of battle. The latter is off topic here, and the last thread HN had about this did not do well enough at keeping to the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Instead, ask first whether you can find a place of compassion in yourself before commenting. If you can't, that's understandable, but then please don'…

Thank you, Dang. As someone on the Israeli left I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place- I do not condone Netanyahu and his government and am indeed very critical of Israeli governments of the past decades. But on the other side, my 78 year old mother is fleeing to shelter every couple hours as my hometown (not anywhere near the west bank or the Gaza strip) gets hit by rockets, as do my young nieces and nephe…

[flagged]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#248

Post by burnerburnson »

text0404 wrote: post #105
krembo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the source is AlJazeera can you at least take these testimonies with a grain of doubt?

what's wrong with al jazeera?

They are state-owned media for an authoritarian government that is hostile to Israel. They are incentivized to make Israel look bad.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#249

Post by Nathanba »

hiddencost wrote: post #70

My political awareness was forged by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the American response. The core lesson: the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction. America wildly over reacted and became fundamentally hostile to Arab and Muslim people. This reaction led to some of the most successful recruiting of radicals in generations. Israel's response to this crisis seems to have failed to learn from that…

> the point of a terrorist attack is to trigger an over reaction

I don't agree with that at all, the point of a terrorist attack is to continue a war of attrition. An overreaction is actually the worst thing that can happen to terrorists: It nullifies their attempt to win via small incremental attritional steps. The reason why the US didn't win the war against terror is because it didn't attack the core ideology that causes the terror. For example in their fight against Nazi ideology in post war Germany the US "overreacted" hard and made sure that Germany was forced to make the nazi ideology wholly illegal and every depiction of a nazi symbol in public illegal.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#250

Post by Unfrozen0688 »

bluescrn wrote: post #73

Meanwhile, Egypt seems to get a free pass, minimal criticism for keeping its border locked down while being adjacent to a terrible conflict? They could at least let the most vulnerable/sick/injured flee.

They dont want to let Hamas in. Hamas comes from the Egypt, now banned, Muslim brotherhood party.

If they let 1-2 mil Palestinians, the sinai penninsula would be taken over.

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