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OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

wsj.com

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Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#241

Post by jacquesm »

dgacmu wrote: post #182
endisneigh wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they wanted to sue, the employees would have to make some decision, forcing the issue regardless so I doubt it matters.

I'm objecting to the comment that the remaining board has little to lose. It's possible for sufficiently motivated investors, former board members, and employees to make their life awfully miserable.

Seconded, the board has a lot to lose and short of making a deal that defangs the tigers I don't see them just moving on with their lives. Especially not those board members that weren't independently wealthy yet.

Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#242

Post by robomartin »

martingalex2 wrote: post #60
robomartin wrote: post #27

How does someone come back without being livid about what just happened? Without giving it much thought, my first impulse would be that every single person who participated in the ousting would have to resign and go away immediately. I cannot conceive of any way to clear the air and approach the work to be done with a clear mental state. Too vindictive or appropriately restorative?

I'm interested in whether this has potential trickle effect in other startups where the staff threaten to mutiny if they don't like the change in leadership. Flipping crazy and precedent setting for corporate governance.

Another thought along those lines might be:

How is this going to influence startup deals?

Are founders going to insist on terms that protect them from the board easily ousting them?

Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#243

Post by jacquesm »

endisneigh wrote: post #146
golergka wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I doubt Microsoft will match the hypothetical 90B valuation for their profit share units, otherwise they would’ve left already (Microsoft has agreed to match) If Microsoft won't, Google or Meta will.

I doubt it. The ppus at a 90 billion valuation puts even late employees in the 7 figure territory. They can afford it, but ultimately the brand is what’s valuable. The only reason both Google and meta have not released something like gpt4 is because it’s not profitable and paying hundreds of millions for dozens of employees or billions for everyone isn’t really going to be worth it. Ironically, it would be better to…

The brand was a lot more valuable last Thursday. And it remains to be seen if it can recover or not.

Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#244

Post by jacquesm »

mminer237 wrote: post #147
startupsfail wrote: post #31

I would call for an attempt to restore the nonprofit structure and the board, using a CA government intervention that regulates nonprofits. Sam Altman certainly was very perceptive - https://blog.samaltman.com/machine-intelligence-part-1 But it does seem that the concentration of power was getting a bit high. And the fact that the nonprofit that was created to balance exactly that had disintegrated is not a good sign…

OpenAI is incorporated in Delaware, so it would be up to the Delaware attorney general to make any direction as to the non-profit purpose, which she has thus far ignored.

Someone would have to petition for intervention first.

Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#245

Post by jacquesm »

alberth wrote: post #76

If Sam was reinstated as CEO, does that really solve anything? Isn’t the underlining issue the conflict of their own nonprofit vs profit status & motives.

You can be certain that those are the sticking points in any negotiations.

- board liability

- board resignations

- dissolution or restructuring of the non-profit + bylaws

- timing

- any pay-off to the board (assuming they aren't lucky to escape with their hides in one piece)

Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#246

Post by endisneigh »

dgacmu wrote: post #182
endisneigh wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they wanted to sue, the employees would have to make some decision, forcing the issue regardless so I doubt it matters.

I'm objecting to the comment that the remaining board has little to lose. It's possible for sufficiently motivated investors, former board members, and employees to make their life awfully miserable.

How so? They only have themselves to blame. Unless you’re saying they’re going to send death threats?

Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#247

Post by jacquesm »

robomartin wrote: post #27

How does someone come back without being livid about what just happened? Without giving it much thought, my first impulse would be that every single person who participated in the ousting would have to resign and go away immediately. I cannot conceive of any way to clear the air and approach the work to be done with a clear mental state. Too vindictive or appropriately restorative?

Oh that will definitely be a starter condition. Otherwise the rest of the conversation is pointless. Between Ilya and Sam it is going to be plenty of uncomfortable too but that might be repaired, especially with Greg bridging. But the rest of the board isn't going to survive this if Sam goes back to OpenAI.

Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#248

Post by jacquesm »

robomartin wrote: post #242
martingalex2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in whether this has potential trickle effect in other startups where the staff threaten to mutiny if they don't like the change in leadership. Flipping crazy and precedent setting for corporate governance.

Another thought along those lines might be: How is this going to influence startup deals? Are founders going to insist on terms that protect them from the board easily ousting them?

Yes, the fall-out from all this is going to be much, much wider than just OpenAI. And if it ends up in front of a judge I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually results in adjustments to the law.

Re: OpenAI investors keep pushing for Sam Altman’s return

#249

Post by 15457345234 »

ebalit wrote: post #223
15457345234 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's objectively weird to see staff - almost all of them researchers and head-down types - unite so firmly behind a non-technical CEO. Those staff usually have their private champions within the company - usually technically focussed project managers who can run interference against the commercial side - but nod along with the CEO who they view as the ugly necessity of having to have a 'business guy.'

This is not how I interpret the messages from the OpenAI team members. They are sending messages of unity, not fealty to Sam Altman. Working together brought them to the top of the world both in term of research and product. This is a dream come true. What would surprise me is that they wouldn't do everything they can to avoid breaking their team.

Does it not seem odd to you that they all just retweet heart emojis and copy/pasted statements, instead of composing their own separately written statements of support?

These are meant to be top-tier researchers, you'd think they'd put their thoughts in their own words. That too would avoid uncertainty and make their position easier to understand.

Just retweeting a heart emoji because their dear leader (lol) did it is... odd, to me. Unless it's specifically intended to send the message that they'll literally do whatever he tells them to do. Which is about a thousand times weirder.

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