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Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

arstechnica.com

241–250 of 275 posts

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#241

I have worked at other FAANGs where I see certain immigrant managers only seem to hire other immigrants from the same country...

Sounds like there can be an easy fix for something like this with a few minor HR policy changes

Except “Can you hire from your network?” is an explicit grading criteria when hiring senior management.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you telling me all those job opportunities in the back of IEEE Spectrum where they give 1 line job descriptions and tell you to mail your resume to some anonymous post office box aren’t actual job opportunities? I can’t believe it! In other words, professional societies are complicit in this too.

Newspapers absolutely love the PERM stuff because they charge 5x the price. Larger publications that have self-serve job postings will specifically _not_ allow PERM ads without talking to a sales rep who will give you a substantially higher price than the self-service option.

Yep. And in many cities there is only one viable newspaper, so they run absolutely wild with the monopoly status.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try working with people on a 12 hr time difference. It's very difficult.. I don't believe it truly works. I don't think management at some places know it doesn't work because they aren't involved in the actual work.

I don't know about 12 hours away - that'd be China and Perth - but there's certainly FAANG engineering offices in Europe, Canada, Japan, Sydney… But FAANG isn't going to leave Silicon Valley. If your theory says that's a good idea, you should ditch it for one that has empirical evidence for working.

California to various parts of India is 12 hrs at various times in the year.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're posting something is econ 101 you're probably wrong, and you're especially wrong if you claim adding people increases supply but not demand. People ARE demand. Labor economists don't use "econ 101", and importantly they prefer empirical evidence over theory.

What a ridiculous take. There are limited job openings and thats a constant for any company (thats demand). Then there are people to fill those positions (thats supply). You shift the demand/supply balance by expanding the supply pool. This is an extremely simple concept that you've somehow made complicated for yourself. People are not damand, I have no idea what that even means in the relevant context.

> There are limited job openings and thats a constant for any company (thats demand).

The number of job openings isn't constant over longer than like a day. What you're doing here is called partial equilibrium analysis.

> People are not damand, I have no idea what that even means in the relevant context.

That you missed econ 201?

People are demand because they buy things. Employees increase demand for other employees because jobs are created by "comparative advantage", and as long as your company is growing it's not possible to run out of that, although it does grow more specialized.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#245
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deportation orders in the United States are executed by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), a division of the Department of Homeland Security. ICE agents are authorized to carry firearms such as handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

ok. Say we didn't have ICE. How will you now justify holding others at gunpoint to violate a contract you voluntarily signed while having the part that benefits you still enforced? Or is immigration the only thing you were thinking of when you asked for more laws?

This isn’t about more laws, but about fair enforcement of existing ones. Workers, regardless of their immigration status, should have the right to decent working conditions and fair wages. When any worker is exploited, it affects the labor market as a whole. The goal should be to create systems that uphold human rights and labor standards for everyone.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#246
post #236

Reading into the press release, there is a distinction that probably escapes most native citizens here: they are talking about EB2 visa, not H1B. PERM certification is not the same labor certification done in H1B. PERM is a much more rigorous and demanding process and it costs a lot more money than anything related to H1B. The reason is because it leads to a green card, not just a work permit. Often, it requires an a…

> native citizens I hope that by this you mean Native Americans. Or are colonizers now considered native citizens?

Native means belonging to a place by birth, as to distinguish from citizens not born here. Colonizer is dehumanizing language.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's literally a claim that there are no US citizens or LPRs who could do that job. How credible you'd think such a claim is? Very credible, because people already employed don’t really count. It doesn’t matter at what company. Imagine someone leaves whatever company they are at to take the role at Apple. Now the company the employee left has an opening that can’t be filled. And that’s how it works. Otherwise there…

>Very credible, because people already employed don’t really count. It doesn’t matter at what company. Why don't they count? Already employed people are recruited by Apple, I get spammed by Apple recruiters, I know a dozen of people who had been poached by Apple from various companies. Apple does hire people who are already employed, they pay quite a bit more so many employed people are looking if not for increased p…

> Why exactly can not it be filled?

Because eventually you’ll run out of people that can be hired.

Unless you’re making an argument that there are more software developers than job openings in the US, which is patently false.

And more importantly, this case is more about people who were already employed at Apple, on a non-immigrant visa, that Apple wished to retain permanently. I see no actual wrongdoing here. A tried and tested employee is ALWAYS better than an unknown one.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Very credible, because people already employed don’t really count. It doesn’t matter at what company. Why don't they count? Already employed people are recruited by Apple, I get spammed by Apple recruiters, I know a dozen of people who had been poached by Apple from various companies. Apple does hire people who are already employed, they pay quite a bit more so many employed people are looking if not for increased p…

> Why exactly can not it be filled? Because eventually you’ll run out of people that can be hired. Unless you’re making an argument that there are more software developers than job openings in the US, which is patently false. And more importantly, this case is more about people who were already employed at Apple, on a non-immigrant visa, that Apple wished to retain permanently. I see no actual wrongdoing here. A trie…

>Because eventually you’ll run out of people that can be hired.

I am not sure I am following again. Have you worked anywhere at all or know anybody who worked somewhere? Ask them, the positions get filled, nobody runs out of people, and Apple is doubly so.

>Unless you’re making an argument that there are more software developers than job openings in the US, which is patently false.

No, I am making argument that there are able, qualified and willing US software developers, or any other professionals, available to take any job at Apple.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#249
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok. Say we didn't have ICE. How will you now justify holding others at gunpoint to violate a contract you voluntarily signed while having the part that benefits you still enforced? Or is immigration the only thing you were thinking of when you asked for more laws?

This isn’t about more laws, but about fair enforcement of existing ones. Workers, regardless of their immigration status, should have the right to decent working conditions and fair wages. When any worker is exploited, it affects the labor market as a whole. The goal should be to create systems that uphold human rights and labor standards for everyone.

There you go. So to answer the question you avoided, yes you are the only one asking to literally threaten others at gunpoint to enforce laws that allow you to violate a contract you voluntarily signed. You do not believe that force is only justified in response to force, despite pretending to make that your position in your initial comment. Thanks for playing.

Re: Apple discriminated against US citizens in hiring, DOJ says

#250
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

happens every time where I work. once you get a manager from India, they will rarely hire anyone other than Indians again.

Every group does this, but its okay to openly write discriminatory shit against Indians and chinese online. Just look at the academic hiring phds for aerospace related department in US and tell me its not filled with hispanics. When you start pointing fingers at people other than Indian/SEA and Chinese now it gets into the racist territory.

Claims observing that Indians tend to hire Indians is discriminatory.

Observed that Hispanics hire Hispanics.

lol.

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