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Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

nytimes.com

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Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#241

Post by djbusby »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #226
advael wrote: post #162

I'm somewhat surprised no one here views this as an automated decisionmaking problem It's increasingly clear that automating important decisions like this is causing a lot of harm while removing most forms of recourse available to those affected. Coupled with the way automated decisions are used to perform and then launder fraud on a massive scale, maybe we should target laws at the automation itself: Require decisio…

Every app should have a signature that includes the devs that worked on it, the business manager that requested it, and the IT leadership that oversaw its use. This is already done for financial statements. If you put out software that is actively causing harm, you should know your fingerprints are on it Employees like devs would be protected by professional insurance. That would cause bad management to shape up, or…

Not the devs, they have no agency in the decision. Management, for sure, post their name and LinkedIn profile.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#242

Post by freddie_mercury »

advael wrote: post #162

I'm somewhat surprised no one here views this as an automated decisionmaking problem It's increasingly clear that automating important decisions like this is causing a lot of harm while removing most forms of recourse available to those affected. Coupled with the way automated decisions are used to perform and then launder fraud on a massive scale, maybe we should target laws at the automation itself: Require decisio…

> I'm somewhat surprised no one here views this as an automated decisionmaking problem

It isn't an automated decision-making problem. Every instance involves humans in the loop making the final decision. And that article makes clear -- via spokesperson statements -- that it is auditable and the banks know exactly why accounts were terminated.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#243

Post by pdonis »

krick wrote: post #210
krupan wrote: post #70

The crazy thing to me in all this is that the types and amounts of transactions you make with your money and the bank is not criminal and never could be. It could however be a technique used to hide things that are criminal like fraud or theft. Somehow somewhere along the way we as a society decided we were ok with criminalizing the types of transactions that can be used to hide crime. That to me should have been a c…

> we as a society decided we were ok with criminalizing the types of transactions that can be used to hide crime I'm not event sure that we, as a society, actually did decide that. When, how? Was there a vote, a referendum? I cannot speak for everyone, but to me it feels like we as a society sure as fuck didn't decide anything. Yes, somebody decided that, but we as a society never were a part of the conversation, rea…

We as a society have allowed our elected representatives to pass laws that empowered unelected bureaucrats to write reams of regulations that require banks to do these things, all in the name of "security". It's not going to change unless and until we the people give our elected representatives different incentives.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#244

Post by phpisthebest »

panarky wrote: post #119
raincom wrote: post #41

Banks hide behind Bank Secrecy Act and other regulations in order to debank people. Chase closed my account, and the reason Chase gave: "Financial institutions have an obligation to know our customers and monitor transactions that flow through our customers' accounts. After careful consideration, we decided to close your account because of unexpected activity on these or another Chase account." I didn't dispute any t…

> Chase monitors your political activity This is a big claim. It should have big evidence to back it up.

Just follow any Conservative, Christian, or Gun group and you will see stories of Chase closing accounts for political reasons,

Chase is will known for this in many political circles

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#245

Post by hanniabu »

redox99 wrote: post #206
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #78

Protip to anybody who wants to spend an extended amount of time overseas - you’re looking at a strong opportunity to join the list of people who have their accounts closed. Red flags include quantity of overseas debit card transactions, setting a PO Box (this one apparently is a very big red flag to banks) or a PMB as your bank address, lots of wire transfers. Open multiple bank accounts at different banks, use servi…

> Glad we have so much energy focusing on legit bankers instead of the crypto that is actually funding multiple US adversaries at this very moment Funny you criticize crypto, when it actually solves all the bullshit you're mentioning. It's so nice knowing for a fact that when I send or receive crypto, it will 100% arrive within moments, unlike the absolute shitfest that is international transfers (like SWIFT).

Wouldn't expect any less from HN, but can't blame them much when people like Senator Warren make up lies about terrorist funding.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#246

Post by lxgr »

redox99 wrote: post #206
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #78

Protip to anybody who wants to spend an extended amount of time overseas - you’re looking at a strong opportunity to join the list of people who have their accounts closed. Red flags include quantity of overseas debit card transactions, setting a PO Box (this one apparently is a very big red flag to banks) or a PMB as your bank address, lots of wire transfers. Open multiple bank accounts at different banks, use servi…

> Glad we have so much energy focusing on legit bankers instead of the crypto that is actually funding multiple US adversaries at this very moment Funny you criticize crypto, when it actually solves all the bullshit you're mentioning. It's so nice knowing for a fact that when I send or receive crypto, it will 100% arrive within moments, unlike the absolute shitfest that is international transfers (like SWIFT).

On the other hand, crypto provides copious evidence for the need of some level of regulation.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#247

Post by BLKNSLVR »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #129
krupan wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of discussion in the comments here about how ingrained banks are into our current system. I do honestly see Bitcoin as a way out of that, but at this early stage of it, you'd probably have to get help from someone who is not debanked in order to interact with our heavily banked system. If you are honestly interested in this, take a close look at Strike.

BTC or BCH?

I mostly agree with krupan's answer below, but it depends on use-case.

BTC for investment or long-term store of value. BCH, or various other alternatives (Litecoin, XRP, Stellar, cough Nano cough), for making payments. But if you can use the Lightning network, then BTC works for payments as well (arguably - in this space anything and everything is highly arguable).

If you're seriously looking down the track at using cryptocurrency, spend some time playing with small amounts of it to see how it all works. Different coins have different use-cases, and it's very confusing to come from zero knowledge. Also transferring and converting between different coin types can kill you in fees, so keep an eye on that as well.

And in doing your research don't believe what anyone says about anything, especially youtube folks. Find the most likely narratives amongst the jungle of snakes and traps, based on your own experience at detecting bullshit and applying logic.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#248

Post by raincom »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #229
raincom wrote: post #41

Banks hide behind Bank Secrecy Act and other regulations in order to debank people. Chase closed my account, and the reason Chase gave: "Financial institutions have an obligation to know our customers and monitor transactions that flow through our customers' accounts. After careful consideration, we decided to close your account because of unexpected activity on these or another Chase account." I didn't dispute any t…

> If a bank has 1M accounts, regulators want to see a certain number of SAR/CTR filings, a certain number of account closures; regulators go hard on financial institutions, if the latter don't follow the industry average (#SARs, #CTRs, #closures) Oh lord, this just asks for gamification. If there's a multi-million dollar customer and a five thousand dollar customer, who do you reckon they'd rather lose in order to re…

Regulators fine big banks for "weak controls". To show that they have "strong controls", they have to show quantitative data. Now, every bank is engaged in one-upmanship. Since we don't have data on the number of account closures, we should look at SAR/CTR statistics provided by FinCen. Every year, SAR numbers go up by 20%; that's because banks fill SARs with "transaction with no apparent economic, business or lawful purpose". Just gamify SAR reports with vague stuff.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#249

Post by hanniabu »

krupan wrote: post #60
fyzix wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm usually a crypto sceptic but your story scares me, because it'll only get worse with time.

Just a tip, stick with Bitcoin, not crypto.

Ethereum trumps bitcoin in pretty much every metric except for market cap, which is lagging because bitcoin has the name brand, simpler for people to understand, and misinformation spread by bitcoin maxis and competing chains

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#250

Post by _lvbh »

jowea wrote: post #43
robbywashere_ wrote: post #36

I have a crazy idea that might just work. What if we could create something that has the privacy of cash, is uncensorable like cash but could also be digitally transmitted like electronic payments?

> What if we could create something that has the privacy of cash, Unless you're implying Monero I don't think so. > is uncensorable like cash Uncensorable until you get sanctioned like Tornado Cash? Or this is also about Monero? > but could also be digitally transmitted like electronic payments? At the same speed, convenience, security and efficiency level?

Not OP but I immediately thought of Monero.

I wish we could have something like Monero run by the Government backed by gold.

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