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The death of a public intellectual

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Re: The death of a public intellectual

#241

Post by Kye »

migro23 wrote: post #234
migro23 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted a book can contain much more context that might help the author save face but claiming that the "framing of the video is plainly and severely biased" is tenuous. Why? Because the clip was self contained, It contained 1 question "Please give your definition of racism" and 1 answer that was a definition of racism that was self referential. You could claim he mis-spoke but c'mon, here's a guy who wrote a book ab…

"Humans aren't robots. They aren't flawless. Every prolific public speaker messes up and says something that's complete nonsense while trying to collect the right word." Competely agree, what's jarring is that he is replying to a simple question asking to define something that is literally the focal point of his intellectual career. It is possible that he just messed up and said something that as you say was 'complet…

>> "Fair enough, can you source any other examples of him defining racism?"

The suggested book is in my TBR list now. I haven't made a claim one way or the other, so I have nothing to cite or source. I really have no clue about the guy other than this one clip and the book recommendation, so I'm going to go with the medium where he has room to run and an editor challenging him on what really is a complex topic.

"What is racism?" could fill a book. And hey, what do you know, someone wrote one.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#242

Post by ifyoubuildit »

A lot of negative comments in here.

It seems that everyone has their own whipping boy "public intellectual" in mind that once loudly said a thing that they disagreed with, and this is the opportunity to really stick it to them for that audacity.

Here's my hot take: consume what you want, just don't let it consume you. All of these people have probably said something worth mulling over, whether you ultimately end up agreeing with them or not. Learn what you can and then move on.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#243

Post by andrewflnr »

Jensson wrote: post #57
andrewflnr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you can personally verify all the facts about biology, physics, and distant places that you rely on to make decisions every day, then you can throw stones about arguments from authority. The rest of us use a little bit of faith.

You can trim that down quite a lot by assuming things aren't magic and use some minimal trust. If people say that cars are designed using newtonian physics, and you see your car is working, then you can say you have tested newtonian physics even if you don't understand the calculations. Basically you test what you have and trust the description of the implementation. If it works you can trust the whole chain. This is…

"Minimal trust" is still distinctly non-zero, which is my point. GP was trying to tell us we should get to zero, which is obviously not feasible.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#244

Post by ubermonkey »

migro23 wrote: post #204
ubermonkey wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't hit the link --- getting a 503 -- but I'd add a few. Rebecca Solnit ( Men Explain Things To Me , widely awarded) Ta-Nehisi Coates ( Between the World and Me , MacArthur Fellow) Ibrahim X. Kendi ( How to Be an Antiracist , MacArthur Fellow)

Once I heard Kendi's definition of racism (1) I could no longer take that guy seriously. He is a social justice warrior public intellectual of the post modernist variety leading me to think he is either innocently and unknowningly deluded or an intentional and nefarious grifter profitting from giving apparent credence to the hard left hardliners. A similar role that Jordan Peterson leverages to make a living arguing…

The apparent use of "social justice warrior" as a pejorative suggests that maybe engaging with you won't be productive for either of us.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#245

Post by AlecSchueler »

jlos wrote: post #235
virtualritz wrote: post #211

It's noteworthy but sadly not surprising[1], that someone like Peterson is listed as an 'intellectual'. This man talks like ChatGPT when asked to clad a text of the most basic ideas, frequently completely missing the point, into sophisticated-sounding language. The other names tell me nothing; but having the former in the list kept me from looking up the latter. [1] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellec…

So you would not consider someone who has the following CV an intellectual? - Has published or co-authored over 100+ academic papers in multiple fields - Has h-index of 41, i10-index of 77, with 21,000 citations [0] - Taught at Harvard - Tenured Professor at the largest University in Canada - 20+ year clinical practice - Best selling author with over 5 million copies sold You don't have to like his ideas, but if this…

Isn't this just an appeal to authority?

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#246

Post by pa7ch »

blueflow wrote: post #228
virtualritz wrote: post #211

It's noteworthy but sadly not surprising[1], that someone like Peterson is listed as an 'intellectual'. This man talks like ChatGPT when asked to clad a text of the most basic ideas, frequently completely missing the point, into sophisticated-sounding language. The other names tell me nothing; but having the former in the list kept me from looking up the latter. [1] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellec…

95% of times when i hear about Peterson, its someone trying to discredit him. Then i go to Youtube, search for what Peterson said about $topic, and can't find shit that i would even bother about. This stuff is getting creepy. Where is all the dislike coming from?

Contrapoints has a good criticism of him.

I think the ragey criticisms are baited by him dancing around far right positions while otherwise talking pretty normal stuff. Anger based criticisms end up lying to make their point and then make Peterson more popular as a result.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#247

Post by [deleted] »

blueflow wrote: post #228
virtualritz wrote: post #211

It's noteworthy but sadly not surprising[1], that someone like Peterson is listed as an 'intellectual'. This man talks like ChatGPT when asked to clad a text of the most basic ideas, frequently completely missing the point, into sophisticated-sounding language. The other names tell me nothing; but having the former in the list kept me from looking up the latter. [1] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellec…

95% of times when i hear about Peterson, its someone trying to discredit him. Then i go to Youtube, search for what Peterson said about $topic, and can't find shit that i would even bother about. This stuff is getting creepy. Where is all the dislike coming from?

[deleted]

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#248

Post by KittenInABox »

hnreport wrote: post #180
pjc50 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and yes? It's kind of inescapable in modern politics, because it's effective at getting people elected and/or making money. It's not the worst way to get elected; certainly better than relying on narrow donor class money. Just .. recognize the limitations of it.

I’m inclined to agree. The problem is, unlike High School where the kids just grow the fuck out of all the stupid teenage bullshit, adults seem to not have that kinda structure going on. So instead of being a Rogan stan for those weird years in High School, you are grown ass 30 year year old Stan who’s been stanning for 5 years now minimum. Adults today don’t know how to snap out of the high school shit they easily s…

I don't think that's "adults today". Adults in the past also had parasocial shit going on. Do you think the people banging on Sherlock Holmes's author feeling personally betrayed by the ending were all young kiddos?

I think the issue with being an adult is that you often think you've outgrown childish inclinations. In actuality, I find adults will act childishly and then assume, because they are adults, their behavior must be mature and taken seriously.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#249

Post by ck425 »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #245
jlos wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would not consider someone who has the following CV an intellectual? - Has published or co-authored over 100+ academic papers in multiple fields - Has h-index of 41, i10-index of 77, with 21,000 citations [0] - Taught at Harvard - Tenured Professor at the largest University in Canada - 20+ year clinical practice - Best selling author with over 5 million copies sold You don't have to like his ideas, but if this…

Isn't this just an appeal to authority?

You have to use some metric to define 'intellectual' and those all seem like reasonable ones to me. I don't see why you'd consider most of those as appeals to authority. Teaching at Harvard and tenured Professor perhaps but the rest are appeals to experience.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#250

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #245
jlos wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would not consider someone who has the following CV an intellectual? - Has published or co-authored over 100+ academic papers in multiple fields - Has h-index of 41, i10-index of 77, with 21,000 citations [0] - Taught at Harvard - Tenured Professor at the largest University in Canada - 20+ year clinical practice - Best selling author with over 5 million copies sold You don't have to like his ideas, but if this…

Isn't this just an appeal to authority?

Not sure that's a fallacy when the question is "is this guy a particular sort of authority". It's more like a validation of said authority.
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