This is one of the things I love about America. Each state can run their own experiments and everyone else can watch. We don't have to wonder what would happen now.
Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
241–250 of 317 posts
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also from your article: > psychiatrist and former RANZCP president, Prof Malcolm Hopwood, says most people who taper off a standard antidepressant dose will be able to do so without major withdrawal symptoms ... "There’s a _small_ group who really experience significant withdrawal symptoms that they really find very difficult to manage" Discontinuation symptoms are a real risk, but people who could really benefit fro…
That guy's job is pushing psychiatric medicine and techniques on society though, right?
The phrasing here definitely makes you wonder how big is the group that experiences moderate side effects that are moderately unpleasant and moderately difficult to manage, and what do these qualifying terms actually mean in terms of severity and overall negative impact on a patient?
A small group that has severe side effects and finds them very difficult to manage is kind of a big deal in a class of drugs that actually have small effect size in the medical literature.
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fully agree SSRI:s probably saved my life. SSRI:s are supposed to be used as part of therapeutic regimen with therapy and regular checkups with doctor, not as over-the-counter remedy like aspirin. I’m guessing that using them detached from any therapeutic context increases the prevalence of negative experiences.
That certainly could be a factor in some people having bad experiences in America at least–as I understand it insurance coverage for mental health is often limited or bad, and appointments with doctors are hard to come by and often only last 15 minutes.
Well the issue is finding a therapist you like that is also covered. I just moved and have been looking for a new therapist. All the ones that I’ve been recommended are not part of an insurance network. You can file for reimbursement, but it’s slower and the coverage isn’t as good as in network doctors. I went from a $20 copay for my last therapist to paying $200-300 per session out of pocket (depending on who I go with).
Psychiatrists can have similar issues but you don’t meet with them nearly as often. Once I got on meds that worked for me, we’d have a 30 minute meeting every two months just to check in and see if any adjustments were needed. That was fine by me because I was going to a therapist weekly, the two were aware of each other and would communicate if needed, and it saved both of us time.
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#244What's missing from this article is that people are reaching for this because the standard medical treatment for these disorders, SSRIs, are pretty terrible. In the mild case, the common side effects are blunting of your emotions and sexual dysfunction. So you don't have panic attacks, but you live in a gray fog and your relationships suffer. In the worst case, they cause suicidal ideation. Psychedelics also have psy…
If you don’t quantify these things and perform cost-benefit analysis, it’s like saying we shouldn’t drive cars , because in the worst case you burn alive. SSRI side effect prevalence is a hard thing to measure for a large variety of reasons. But in [1] only 1/4 patients report the side effects as ”very bothersome.” Given that 100% of patients are so anxious/depressed that they want to try psych meds, it seems like SS…
Gotta love the language there. "Very bothersome" sounds so much less problematic than other potential phrasings. Like, "oh dear, I get brain zaps, feel like a zombie, and am having persistent intrusive thoughts that interfere with my ability to think and perform during the day. Gee golly, what a nuisance."
A quarter of patients reporting very troubling side effects is not great for a class of drugs with an effect size around 0.3, or about 10% more reduction in depression symptom scores compared to placebo. If you have run out of options and are desperate for relief, it may be an appealing risk/reward equation for some people. But the notion that 100% of patients believe they need these meds, rather than had the drug recommended by a doctor/psychiatrist (who maybe didn't go into great detail about the potential risks vs tempering expectations about how likely they are to help), is absurd. It totally ignores how our medical system operates in most cases. Many times, the doctors prescribing will be informed by drug company PR literature moreso than careful reading of scientific research.
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#245One issue is that SSRI treatment has to be stopped before starting psychedelic therapy (interactions). This means tapering off until you're not being treated anymore, which takes weeks if not months, can be difficult and put the patient in a less than ideal state of mind, possibly even worse than when they started off. And this is a very bad state of mind to be in when starting psychedelics. I wonder how people usual…
While nobody should do this, the interaction risk between an SSRI and a classical psychedelic is low. The primary concerns are serotonin syndrome, which requires a dose far outside the level that a responsible practitioner would administer. That said, this does mean that if an error is made, the consequence is far more severe (ie: miligrams as opposed to micrograms in dosing LSD). I have heard second-hand reports of…
Ayahuasca is a classical psychedelic and the interaction risk with SSRIs is extremely high.
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as the risks, I have a friend who's been "microdosing" acid and shrooms for a while, and recently had a legitimate psychotic break, thinking all of her life-long friends were in some kind of Truman Show-esque grand conspiracy against her. She ditched town and cut us all off for over a month. I can't say the drug use caused it, but I and the rest of her friends are of the opinion that it contributed (we all hav…
Honest Q: How much weed does she smoke? Because if she smokes a considerable amount then that is certainly more likely than the psychedelics to be a factor.
I don't think she's a huge weed smoker.
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
She's not bipolar. I don't know family history other than her brother is an addict and her mom posts 20 political memes a day on FB that venture into conspiratorial stuff (but that describes a lot of people I know). The only signs we can come up with were a few times going back 20 years, either at a party (drugs) or a canoe trip (drugs) where she thought people were talking about her/plotting against her. I wasn't on…
I know someone who had a lesser but similar episode after taking shrooms for the first time. It was about a week of paranoid delusions (The Truman Show came up a few times). After he snapped out of it, he totally turned his life around; went from a very phlegmatic personality to totally type A, got his degree, and now owns several businesses. The human brain is just so complex.
That's uplifting to hear. So far my friend has seemed more or less okay for a couple months. Fingers crossed. I honestly had no idea if these things could just go away on their own. It sounds like it's possible at least.
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
Counterpoint: SSRIs were transformative for my depression. Side effects were minor and manageable (eg, Wellbutrin worked well to prevent any sexual dysfunction). I was on them for several years and had no problem tapering off. My understanding is that this is a pretty typical experience. Rhetoric like this was actively harmful in dissuading me for years from trying what ended up being by far the most effective treatm…
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think in my part my negative reaction is, like many people, having observed the effects of SSRIs on young people. It's well known that risks like suicidal ideation are actually higher among those under 25, and in general it is awful to see the mental health crisis among young people dealt with primarily via instantly reaching toward semi-permanent medication, rather than consider…
The most reasonable conculsion (though tentative) seems to be that SSRI and the more "traditional" option may help some, while psychedelics may help others. (And we have to imagine other drugs in the future will be found.) The trick will to figure out which person will respond to which. But I think all can agree having more options is better.
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#249I still don't think we as a society are allowed to completly ban any drugs. A society might be allowed to have safety mechanism in place but otherwise nothing else.
While I see where you're coming from, how do you address the healthcare gap? I agree with personal freedom of choice and choosing your own risk tolerance, but as a society we collectively pay for the healthcare costs of those who fall through the cracks and go too far. This problem isn't unique to drugs in any way, we face the same problem with e.g. excessive alcohol use, and there the problem is also largely unsolve…
Re: Psychedelic Mushrooms Hit the Market in Oregon
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are certainly an order of magnitude more powerful than pot. You can fairly easily have a psychologically very difficult experience at larger doses. I’m all for people trying them but the effects shouldn’t be underestimated. I’ve had powerful feelings of anxiety, love, euphoria, mania or sadness on different times. Very different from pot which has a pretty uniform and predictable effect on me.
You can fairly easily have a very difficult experience with pot too. I have way worse and stronger experiences with pot than with mushrooms/LSD. Cannabis is quite a powerful drug for many. A lot more powerful than most "hard drugs" like stimulants, empatogens, opioids or sedatives, which don't "mind fuck" at all unless you do them days on end or ridiculous dosages.
This is exactly my experience. I almost never smoke weed, and only do when I'm in a comfortable place and among friends. Shrooms is more of a mid-level body/sensory experience for me, whereas pot is a deep dark journey into the recesses of my psyche.