Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like they're still being paid then. There's zero pay when blocking ads.
There's zero pay if 100% of their viewers blocked ads. There would also be zero pay if 100% of their viewers used SponsorBlock. I'm not saying that on the balance it's wrong to use SponsorBlock (I'm a heavy ad blocker myself, and most of the arguments against SponsorBlock also apply to ad blocking in general), just that you can't justify it by pretending that you using SponsorBlock doesn't cost them anything.
Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
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Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe ads work by making a brand name familiar, which helps you recognize it in the sea of information. And that makes it automatically somewhat more attractive and reputably. You can be entirely unaware of this and it still works. Maybe the ad is not what convinced you, not at all, but it did prompt you to wonder if this LaunchDarkly thing is any good. Youtube kept spamming it in your face and you kept ignoring…
Indeed, you remember the brand, but forget how you got to know it. So even though you learned about something through ads, and you hate ads, eventually you'll forget that it was ads that put it in your brain, but you'll still remember the brand. That's why I call ads psychological violence. They force themselves in your brain and there's nothing you can do against it
That way it won't be:
> nothing you can do
Then we'll have pretty retribution, which is the first step towards tit-for-tat style cooperation.
Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like they're still being paid then. There's zero pay when blocking ads.
There's zero pay if 100% of their viewers blocked ads. There would also be zero pay if 100% of their viewers used SponsorBlock. I'm not saying that on the balance it's wrong to use SponsorBlock (I'm a heavy ad blocker myself, and most of the arguments against SponsorBlock also apply to ad blocking in general), just that you can't justify it by pretending that you using SponsorBlock doesn't cost them anything.
Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In other words, "Word of mouth" for all services. Yup. I avoid every single ad I can on principle. Only exception I used to make was for youtube sponsors, mostly out of laziness, until I finally installed sponsorblock. I've gotten so good at it that at this time I haven't the faintest idea of what movies are there to see at the cinema. Not a single one. I'm probably a very extreme case in actually having succeeded…
There is a real problem with discovery without any ads. I'm still aware of movies, but I never have much idea what TV shows exist anymore, or even when shows I like might are back on the air/streaming. I might hear about about something interesting on social media or a podcast, but won't remember it until I see a picture on the streaming platform months later, when it's already been canceled for lack of viewers. Yout…
Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#245> This is why we ask all users where they heard about PostHog whenever they sign up or book a demo – it's a simple (optional) free text field. Enough of our users say 'ad on Google' or similar that we know paid ads do actually reach a large chunk of them. You have to be careful with how you word questions. If you ask how I first noticed that something exists, then yes, an ad may well be it because ads are so in your…
Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#246> This is why we ask all users where they heard about PostHog whenever they sign up or book a demo – it's a simple (optional) free text field. Enough of our users say 'ad on Google' or similar that we know paid ads do actually reach a large chunk of them. You have to be careful with how you word questions. If you ask how I first noticed that something exists, then yes, an ad may well be it because ads are so in your…
Aren't you mostly talking about what the article calls awareness vs conversion? You're saying that ads made you aware and technical discussion is what would make you convert. The other thing is controversial. "There's no such thing as bad PR" is a saying for a reason. I am also convinced that there are some things that make me never, ever consider a product. And yet: there was this one brand I hated, but it's been a…
intuit/turbotax. Will never use them, ever. Looking forward to the day that product is eliminated from existence by regular online filing.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/03/...
Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#247The first thing I wanted to touch on is the idea that developers hate marketing - this is 100% accurate and I would recommend anyone doing marketing in the dev tool space to have this mindset.
For me the way I’ve dealt with this concept is to try to reframe what my objective is as a marketer. Fundamentally the SDK’s I’ve worked for do deliver value to a developer by helping them develop tools faster and in a more polished fashion. For some developers this is super useful and for others it will never be an option. For obvious reasons I focus on the developers that would see value in this and do everything in my power to make them aware that our solution exists.
My approach to developer marketing:
- Try to be direct as possible in how I communicate the features / capabilities / benefits while avoiding marketese / jargon etc
- I have a philosophy that if you provide value without any strings you benefit in the long run. That’s why I’ve always opposed gated content or even gating trials if possible.
- Developer experience is fundamental to the success of dev tools business. In my organization marketing takes an active role in dev experience - for example we helped reorganize documentation to make it more accessible and easier to navigate for our users. This had a dramatic impact in product adoption.
- Having a good demo should be the cornerstone of your marketing activities. It’s how developers see what you can do and gives your sales team the tools to sell your product effectively.
- Make use of things like live demos so developers can anonymously learn and observe your team without directly talking to a sales representative.
Some of the things I disagree with in the article.
Google display never works:
- This is not always the case. For obvious reasons retargeting is especially disliked in the developer world but in some cases it works. For me I’ll run a Google display campaign that targets any user that’s downloaded our SDK. For these users I focus on delivery display ads that help them integrate the product more effectively. For example I will create ads for these users that promote free trial support to help them build their POC. Typically marketing is not incentivized to drive an increase in support calls but if a user is having trouble building a POC then this is the ideal candidate for us to send to support.
- This also works for marketing pages - users who land on a marketing page will see ads for ungated content like “Buy vs Build” etc
The missing link between paid and organic traffic
Something that seems to be consistently overlooked is how the effort and money you spend on paid channels should help you make better decisions on increasing organic traffic. This is sometimes the main downside with hiring an agency - they might be really good on managing the paid side but don’t provide input on how you can use this to increase organic channels. For example:
- Identify which paid keywords drive conversions and use this data to prioritize your organic channels.
- Use the number of search impressions for your keywords to accurately measure demand for a service
- Use A/B testing to improve CTR in organic search. For example we had a really good blog article that did not have a great title. I ran a display campaign with different titles for this blog article. After about a month there was a clear winner and we renamed the blog article resulting in the ranking and traffic going up for the article.
Paid search and SEO do increase brand awareness
We primarily focused on paid search and SEO which resulted in a significant increase in the total number of users that searched for a brand year-over-year. The number of people searching for your brand is one of the best ways for you to measure brand awareness.
With all this said I do believe that ultimately any success you have marketing to developers manifests from your intentions. I’ve always believed that my intention as a marketer was to “help developers” by providing them tools to make their lives easier. I think this intention is mirrored in the work I do and has been a part of the reason we’ve been successful.
Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#248The article has some helpful points. But as a programmer-SAAS-founder-who-took-over-ads operation, I have some tips on some insights we gleaned doing paid ads (and getting it to be profitable for us): 1. Most important tip: is your product ready for ads? - Do not do paid ads too early. - Do it once you know that your product is compelling to your target audience. - Ads are likely an expensive way of putting your prod…
Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#249> This is why we ask all users where they heard about PostHog whenever they sign up or book a demo – it's a simple (optional) free text field. Enough of our users say 'ad on Google' or similar that we know paid ads do actually reach a large chunk of them. You have to be careful with how you word questions. If you ask how I first noticed that something exists, then yes, an ad may well be it because ads are so in your…
You may enjoy this: https://denovo.substack.com/p/help-doctor-ive-been-exposed-t...
Re: Burning money on paid ads for a dev tool – what we've learned
#250> This is why we ask all users where they heard about PostHog whenever they sign up or book a demo – it's a simple (optional) free text field. Enough of our users say 'ad on Google' or similar that we know paid ads do actually reach a large chunk of them. You have to be careful with how you word questions. If you ask how I first noticed that something exists, then yes, an ad may well be it because ads are so in your…
In my primary business (used video games) I've found that the #1 way to get sales is:
- Give the consumer every feature they need (ideally communicate this in a picture)
- Be the first search result
It's not about detailed descriptions, super-competitive prices or superior product quality.
People will literally just throw money at the first product they see that ticks all the boxes.
In the SaaS world, where everything has a free trial, I can imagine this "rule" is even more true.