I see some comments on a problem here - the charger will have to deliver appx 1MW.
Well, maybe there could be charging stations powered by diesel generators... /s
Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
241–250 of 327 posts
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would probably make most sense to compare their EV sales to other companies EV sales. However I am sure that there are at least a few execs at toyota with your line of thinking: "Our ICE cars are selling better than ever, why are we wasting money on EV development?"
The all-time, cumulative amount of batteries sold in Toyota hybrid cars is similar in scale to the amount of batteries ever sold by Tesla. Until about 2 years ago, Toyota was ahead in this metric.
Sure, Tesla has hybrid sales of zero. It doesn't make golf cart battery packs and electric bike motors. Toyota is great at making (buying off the shelf) those things and connecting them to gas motors.
However, toyota is not great at making EVs and only now is releasing their first (very mediocre) EV. Probably because a hybrid and EV are very different under the hood.
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#243Ten minutes. Is that lots of kW from the charger, or does it already pass 1MW?
That is an avalanche of current and you've hit on the reason the whole EV thing isn't going to work out the way some boosters think. The amount of infrastructure necessary to charge these things is ridiculous. A step-down transformer that can accomplish this feat costs a quarter million dollars, net of the pad and the wires and installation. It might be more globally efficient to re-do the entire grid as HVDC, but th…
The thing is that if the market has already determined that Tesla's range and charge time is OK, then building a car with the same range with the shiny new tech just makes the whole vehicle lighter, by an unsubtle amount. It's hard to tell from the press release, but the implication is that they've doubled the energy density. Right now if you assume 500kg of battery and you replace that with 250kg of battery in otherwise the same 2000kg car (which is now 1750kg), that's a 12% weight saving. That's going to show up as a measurably longer range all on its own.
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#244Ten minutes. Is that lots of kW from the charger, or does it already pass 1MW?
.. possibly a battery swap, a domestic setting getting to those MWs is out of the question. a 200 amp circuit in US at 220v is just about 44KW ..
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#245Does anyone know the energy density of these batteries? I wonder about the applications for flying. Also, I wonder about the military implications - the logistics of energy are a major limitation, as far as I understand.
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#246Toyota has been going hard on this story, no surprise since they dug a grave of irrelevance by anchoring themselves to hydrogen for decades. Even when it was clear EVs were the future and interest in hydrogen was barely registering. Also no surprise that they have nothing to show except a "just wait 5 years!".
> dug a grave of irrelevance A grave of irrelevance so deep that they are the world's largest automaker and their net margins just hit an all-time high. Sometimes I do wonder from which planet these HN remarks are sent.
And they're spending a chunk of that money on lobbying governments around the world to reduce pollution standards so they will probably keep raking in the profits on ICE vehicles while the planet warms up and they keep making press releases about allegedly imminent battery tech.
https://thedriven.io/2023/05/11/toyota-under-fire-for-anti-c...
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#247Wake me when it’s real.
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#248Toyota has been going hard on this story, no surprise since they dug a grave of irrelevance by anchoring themselves to hydrogen for decades. Even when it was clear EVs were the future and interest in hydrogen was barely registering. Also no surprise that they have nothing to show except a "just wait 5 years!".
> dug a grave of irrelevance A grave of irrelevance so deep that they are the world's largest automaker and their net margins just hit an all-time high. Sometimes I do wonder from which planet these HN remarks are sent.
Some of us remember when people similarly said that about GM.
Regardless, we'll see what happens in 5 years. The best outcome is that they are truthful about this development.
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is that some of the Toyota cars also use Lexus motors under the hood. It might say Toyota, but it's the same motor on a Lexus.
Lexus is Toyota. In Japan, they are branded as Toyota, hood symbol and all. They just market them differently in the West. The same thing goes for the Acura / Honda distinction.
Below I'll use "Lexus" to mean those cars that get branded that way when marketed is the West and "Toyota" to mean to the ones that get branded "Toyota" in the West. I'll use "the company" when referring to Toyota the company rather than non-Lexus cars the company makes.
I'm curious if there is any difference within the company other than branding.
Are they built at the same factories, or are there separate factories for Lexus?
Are there separate engineering and/or design organizations for Lexus and Toyota that independently hire engineers and/or designers, or are engineers and/or designers hired by the company and work on whatever mix of Lexus and Toyota projects that the company wants to assign them to?
Re: Toyota’s advanced battery technology roadmap
#250Ten minutes. Is that lots of kW from the charger, or does it already pass 1MW?
Assume 5 miles per kWH of power, that's a little better than the average EV, but as others have noted, this battery will decrease the vehicle's overall weight and thus improve efficiency.
Then the calculation you're looking for looks something like this:
300 miles range * 1/5 kWH/mile = 60 kWH of power
We need to deliver that power in 10 mins, so:
60 kWH * 6 = 360 kW.
You need a 360 kW power feed in order to charge this battery in 10 minutes. Keep in mind the average modern household in the US has a 24kW feed, so it would take all the power available to 15 modern US households to charge this car. But it's only need for 10 minutes. Put another way, if people were continually using this commercial charging point all day long - let's say 16 hours for the day - then for the peak power consumption of 15 US households you could charge 96 cars using this fast charge.