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Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

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Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#241

Post by jfengel »

cmews wrote: post #212
ethanbond wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think we have tricks up our sleeves? What’s that mean “geo-engineering will be done when…” The whole problem is we aren’t capable of doing what we know needs to be done.

When we can burn fossil fuels to impact the atmosphere that cause climate change then we can also pump other gasses that will have a cooling effect. We aren’t doing much at the moment because there aren’t economic incentives to do so, but that can change if we have policy changes.

We aren't doing it because pumping gases into the atmosphere does more than just reduce temperature. Sulfur compounds, for example, dissolve in the clouds and make them acidic.

So does the CO2 itself. The oceans are getting more acidic already, killing shellfish and throwing off food webs.

Throwing additional geoengineering on top of the geoengineering we're already doing will almost certainly cause as many problems as it solves. It would be so much simpler, cheaper, and more effective to just stop digging carbon out of the ground and putting it in the sky.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#242

Post by lossolo »

lr4444lr wrote: post #191
jokoon wrote: post #98

It's odd how everytime somebody mentions slashing oil production by 50 or 75%, people are immediately up in arms. Same for red meat or cheap air travel. Western rich countries have too many really spoiled consumers. It's weird to say, but we should crash the economy if it can slow down climate change. I mean there are plenty people in other parts of the world who don't have such a high standard of living, and it's no…

> there are plenty people in other parts of the world who don't have such a high standard of living, and it's not that big of a problem. Go live like that for 6 months and get back to us: food insecurity, inadequate healthcare, and few civil services or safety net. Those other countries are not net zero pollution either. You wanna crash the economy? How then will we develop the innovations to fix this problem? Can't…

> Can't believe this comment is top rated.

Same. I think it's just helplessness, they feel something bad is coming, and they can't do anything about it, so they try to propose radical solutions that will not fix anything but just make things worse.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#243

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #207
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are not at the brink of extinction and people lived and prospered in almost unhabitable lands long before we had the technology to regulate the temperature. It's relatively simple (though not necessarily easy) to live in a cold area if you have access to furs and fuel. Trying to survive in an area where the wet bulb temperature is over 35 degrees will require reliable air conditioning and working outside will be…

> It's relatively simple (though not necessarily easy) to live in a cold area if you have access to furs and fuel. there must be a reason why the coldest areas on the Planet are deserted... > Trying to survive in an area where the wet bulb temperature is over 35 degrees And yet ancient Egyptians did it 4 thousands years ago. > That reads as gibberish My phone has an Italian dictionary. Fixed it.

> And yet ancient Egyptians did it 4 thousands years ago.

Have you any evidence of Egypt having those kinds of wet bulb temperatures back then? It's physically impossible to survive high wet bulb temperatures even with an unlimited supply of water without some other form of cooling (i.e. not based on air movement such as fans) as water/sweat evaporation isn't effective.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet-bulb_temperature:

> Even heat-adapted people cannot carry out normal outdoor activities past a wet-bulb temperature of 32 °C (90 °F), equivalent to a heat index of 55 °C (131 °F). A reading of 35 °C (95 °F) – equivalent to a heat index of 71 °C (160 °F) – is considered the theoretical human survivability limit for up to six hours of exposure.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#244

Post by LispSporks22 »

> red meat

I've been vegan for decades, and I would love to see humanity move on from meat, but the idea is so incredibly offensive to people that I find it far easier to imagine the the Amazon razed and replaced with cattle feeding lots before that will happen.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#245

Post by jmerz »

cmews wrote: post #212
ethanbond wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think we have tricks up our sleeves? What’s that mean “geo-engineering will be done when…” The whole problem is we aren’t capable of doing what we know needs to be done.

When we can burn fossil fuels to impact the atmosphere that cause climate change then we can also pump other gasses that will have a cooling effect. We aren’t doing much at the moment because there aren’t economic incentives to do so, but that can change if we have policy changes.

We're far more likely to pump a bunch of sulfates into the air than we are to stop driving pickup trucks everywhere. Humans aren't rational, and this is the kind of irrationality that democracy in particular cannot solve.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#247

Post by gbanfalvi »

replygirl wrote: post #167
dtech wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it's pretty obvious that our current situation is already causing death and despair (droughts, wildfires, hurricanes) and this will only increase on our current trajectory.

right, now imagine the hysteria that would come from doing that actively and intentionally to everyone on an accelerated schedule. thwarting cancer by downing a bottle of cyanide

I'd say it's more like thwarting cancer with chemotherapy: an unpleasant experience necessary for survival.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#248

Post by japhyr »

cmews wrote: post #212
ethanbond wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think we have tricks up our sleeves? What’s that mean “geo-engineering will be done when…” The whole problem is we aren’t capable of doing what we know needs to be done.

When we can burn fossil fuels to impact the atmosphere that cause climate change then we can also pump other gasses that will have a cooling effect. We aren’t doing much at the moment because there aren’t economic incentives to do so, but that can change if we have policy changes.

Climate change is an unintended effect of roughly two centuries of growth and development.

It seems much easier to have unintended effects, than to get exactly the effects you want with from a global geoengineering campaign on the first try.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#249

Post by mempko »

lr4444lr wrote: post #191
jokoon wrote: post #98

It's odd how everytime somebody mentions slashing oil production by 50 or 75%, people are immediately up in arms. Same for red meat or cheap air travel. Western rich countries have too many really spoiled consumers. It's weird to say, but we should crash the economy if it can slow down climate change. I mean there are plenty people in other parts of the world who don't have such a high standard of living, and it's no…

> there are plenty people in other parts of the world who don't have such a high standard of living, and it's not that big of a problem. Go live like that for 6 months and get back to us: food insecurity, inadequate healthcare, and few civil services or safety net. Those other countries are not net zero pollution either. You wanna crash the economy? How then will we develop the innovations to fix this problem? Can't…

Before we can talk about food insecurity, (we have that too in the USA), we need to talk about the insane amount of food waste here. You can downshift the economy and IMPROVE food security if we take that as a priority. It's all about political capital.

Re: Earth had hottest 3-months on record; unprecedented sea temps & extreme weather

#250

Post by vel0city »

mdale wrote: post #164
jmondi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about all the countries that won’t do anything regardless? So we should just tank our own economy while being unable to do anything about our neighbors? It won’t take tanking the economy, it would take world war 3.

Why does a green transformation have to "tank" the economy? Can't we have green economic revival ? Would it not create more jobs to transition faster ?

More jobs = more consumption = more resources. Their idea is for people to consume far less, therefore own less. If people own and consume less there's less incomes.

Don't own a house, only rent a small apartment in a dense urban setting. Don't own the means to your own transportation, only get by with walking and transit. Price meats so high most people can't afford them regularly.

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