Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#241

Post by isodev » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

Timber-6539 wrote: post #216

isodev wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On iOS tracking and access to personal information is always opt-in. It’s literally a modal alert asking if you want to give permission when an app requests to access the IDFA for the first time. Apple’s own apps don’t need to display the prompt because as per their privacy policy they don’t collect or use information for tracking purposes (which is also visible in the privacy labels of their apps in the App Store).

> Apple’s own apps don’t need to display the prompt because as per their privacy policy they don’t collect or use information for tracking purposes (which is also visible in the privacy labels of their apps in the App Store). This is the privacy policy [0] of an example of their app, Apple News. I quote: "Advertising In order to deliver great content to you from leading publishers, Apple News is ad supported. If the…

The summary of each app's privacy practices is easier to see at a glance using the App Store Labels: https://www.apple.com/privacy/labels/

In this case, you're referring to "Data Linked to You". "Data Linked to You" is based on the account you used to sign in to the News app + your activity within the news app - to create suggestions within the News app.

This does not allow Apple to track you from the News app e.g. access the IDFA of the device, sharing it with third parties or other apps.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#242

Post by lost_tourist » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #240

daft_pink wrote: post #13

I think it's unfair to compare Facebook actively screwing us to Apple not adopting your proposed metric on their product and passively allowing a very popular app in their app store. Not a huge fan of Apple, but they aren't Facebook.

And yet apple make so much noise about privacy, but don't activly block access to personal information. Like why do they allow access to the health data stored in the phone? It's almost like they need facebook to be the devil so they can say how good they are.

You have to opt in to that tho? Some apps do need your health info because they're a health/activity app.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#243

Post by vore » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

Draiken wrote: post #199

tomnipotent wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is using the data first-party only and isn't reselling or otherwise making it available for third parties to use. Explain how it's not benign, other than "tracking bad". How does it harm consumers, or put customers at risk?

Because it will. It's simply inevitable because of the system we live in. At some point or another, they will need to grow revenue and suddenly that trove of data they have collected beforehand, regardless of its initial purpose, will be used to screw customers. The only way to protect against this is to not let them have that in the first place. Once they have it, it's impossible to guarantee it won't be misused soo…

Apple has a pretty good revenue stream already without using telemetry for advertising, which is why they've been able to position themselves as so privacy focused. Maybe that might change in the future, but like it or not, the Apple ecosystem is lucrative enough already that it seems pretty unlikely they would be nefarious about it anytime soon.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#244

Post by gochi » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:42 PM UTC

LexGray wrote: post #222

Zambyte wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there is a kind of “ethical ads” that’s as close as it gets. A news paper ad? A builtin board? I think advertisements that hijack your attention are always unethical. You should have to look for ads to see them.

Isn't looking at an Apple device just like looking at a newspaper? I seem to recall papers being chock full of ads outside the front page to a far greater extent than the Apple News app. Our society depends on advertising for promoting new services, gaining new customers, and building trust. I would call it a social necessity which makes it very ethical as long as it is truthful. The hijacking that occurs is consensu…

This is a super fascinating comment, because why wouldn't you just want better advertising regulations across the board instead of trying to justify one form while proclaiming the other is harmful?

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#245

Post by r0m4n0 » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:43 PM UTC

isodev wrote: post #177

nicce wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's ad business, however, is growing all the time. And in significant margins. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/apple-is-an-ad-company-now https://www.statista.com/statistics/1330127/apple-ad-revenue...

Apple shows ads for apps in the App Store sans behavioural targeting. If there is a kind of “ethical ads” that’s as close as it gets.

If I'm going to see an ad, I would way rather see an ad about something I care about vs not. Have you watched the evening news on broadcast TV? That is what untargeted ads look like. I don't have IBS but I know the names of every drug that would help me if I did.

I've actually found furniture I'm looking for on websites I didn't know existed on Instagram. Why is targeted ads a bad thing?

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#246

Post by kaba0 » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #175

kaba0 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m fairly sure there are many forms of advertisement that works without tracking.. like a billboard. Displaying an ad next to search results based on the search query for example is similarly benign.

>that works without tracking.. like a billboard. Billboards still require tracking. If you had the option of putting a billboard up in 1 of 2 neighborhoods and it would get 10k impressions in either location which one would you choose? The optimal strategy is not to pick randomly. The optimal strategy is to predict the conversion rate of both locations. In order to do that you need to investigate who is likely to see…

tracking: the act or process of following something or someone

I haven't seen a billboard that would follow me around before. Placing them at popular location depends on existing data (or often just plain-ass thinking, like obviously a hub in the middle of the town will have more people see it compared to the middle of nowhere), and only very very indirectly generates any sort of new data (e.g. if you only place a single ad in a specific place and can correlate that placement with an increase in product sales.. but that is thoroughly unrealistic and I only write it to be nitpicky with myself).

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#247

Post by lost_tourist » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

boesboes wrote: post #4

Fuck me that’s the worst UX I’ve seen in ages

It's super simple, left/right keys for 95% of it, why is that a bad UX?

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#248

Post by advisedwang » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

daneel_w wrote: post #73

raspyberr wrote: post #27

Privacy blog post. vercel-insights.com, www.google.com, 'Sign up with Google', Join 132,793 people from companies like: Microsoft, Amazon, facebook, Google, Disney "There it is again. That funny feeling."

Ironic, isn't it. And the author apparently has nothing at all to say about Android and Google.

I count 3 articles about or comparing Google products on their site: https://growth.design/case-studies

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#249

Post by lost_tourist » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

Guvante wrote: post #42

I don't know why everyone points to taking pictures and audio as scary on social media apps. The ability to record and post a video is effectively baseline functionality and requires those permissions. Certainly Meta is doing shady things here but not all of the permissions are necessarily sketchy. (I would agree that much like position data more specificity would be good for permissions)

Not for us passive social media users. I just flip through friends stuff or news /blogs that I follow, no need for pictures/audio from me. Definitely something to be opted into manually.

Re: Apple vs. Meta: The Illusion of Privacy

#250

Post by kaba0 » Fri, Sep 08, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

MikusR wrote: post #226

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't own an apple device now but why does app store have ads ? After paying upwards of $1000+ on a iPhone, why can't you expect an ad free experience on a first party app store?

Even settings app on iphones has adds.

This is the bullshit I'm talking about in another thread. No it doesn't. Telling you about icloud which is like an inherent feature and partially the reason some people buy their phones is absolutely in no way comparable to actual ads.

Do you know what has ads in settings? Xiaomi. A relative bought one and I helped him set it up, and you literally had to see an ad to listen to your ringtone!!!