Live data from Hacker News

Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

vice.com

241–250 of 431 posts

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's political suicide for Republicans. Left leaning Democrats like Bernie are all for it.

I don’t imagine it would be popular with unions, either.

They are against universal healthcare. Not because it's not a good idea, but because unions in general have negotiated for healthcare benefits. It's sad they're being so petty about this.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#242

Nothing shows the power of unions more than the lengths companies go to fight them. In a Union there is Strength.

[flagged]

Following this logic, would you say that the only way to guarantee same day delivery be to legalize slavery for Amazon delivery drivers?

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Courtesy with customers is forced on them? My god!" I worked in a call center for two years, for three different companies. Yes, (fake) courtesy is forced . The customers of one site were so difficult that courtesy was scripted (there were scripted interactions for frustrated and for rude customers)

Well you have clearly missed the point of my comment. Yes, it's "forced" on them, in the same way that many many other behavioural expectations are "forced" on a worker. They're "forced" not to abuse their co-workers. They're "forced" to treat their workplace with respect. They're "forced" to dress in a certain way. That's called "having a job", and it's all stuff I've had to do, too, in every job I've ever had.

Is it "having a job" to be required to say "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm dedicated to meeting your needs. Let's see what we can do to help you!" in cheery tones after the customer says "you stupid [racial slur], your mother should've aborted you, why can't you get it through your [explicitive] [racial slur] head that I want [thing that was never mentioned, and is, in fact, illegal]"

THAT is the forced courtesy we're talking about.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to stop your local city government from increasing taxes to hire a doctor and provide them with a building and staff in order to provide medical services to locals residents? It seems to me that the problem is that everyone wants a federal solution to healthcare and the United States is generally structured to limit federal power. Fire departments are funded locally generally speaking, it didn't take a federal…

https://www.actuary.org/sites/default/files/pdf/health/pool_... ("For a risk pool to remain viable, it must be of sufficient size and comprised of a broad cross section of risks.")

There are US states more populous than some European countries. Maybe a city can’t do it, but plenty of states could. It’s just damn expensive to try.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a single product that kills people, you aren't legally allowed to put all your liabilities and none of your assets into another (non-shell, by your definition) company to get out of your liabilities. [0] What's happening here is quite similar. [0] See, for example, the J&J case, which was an even more generous form of the same.

> [0] See, for example, the J&J case, which was an even more generous form of the same. I think you have seen a very simplified view of that situation, likely provided by the opposing lawyers. J&J has agreed to give that company 2 billion dollars and the bankruptcy filing would, essentially, be forcing the lawsuit against them to be settled for 2 billion dollars and then, most importantly to J&J, the matter wouldn't…

> They are trying to limit being perpetually sued for the same issue.

Why shouldn't they be perpetually sued for the same issue, until they've fully paid their debt to society, and every person they've harmed is made whole?

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like just the opposite of a capitalist monopoly from the other side. Why would I want any party to control the way a market works? You'll get stagnation both ways. see many historical examples where both monopolies and unions refused change and were overturned, leading to failures. i.e. Detroit I want a functioning competitive market where workers and firms compete and have to adjust and innovate to fit w…

The main way people compete, outside of vampire-FAANG, is by a willingness to work for lower wages There's a massive power imbalance, a lack of alternative employers, but employers all have a huge number of potential employees, so we end up with zero real wage growth in the last 50 years or more while profitability is soaring And if you don't like unions, I hope you're looking forward to the age discrimination in you…

There is some justice in that the young will get old and experience the same system they helped perpetuate. The young should be willing to hire the old, or else they themselves will become old and find that nobody is willing to hire them.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#248

Nothing shows the power of unions more than the lengths companies go to fight them. In a Union there is Strength.

[flagged]

My life has been just fine without next-day deliveries. It has also been fine without being the master of a slave plantation, or having a live-in servant that works for pennies and sleeps in a closet, or a number of other things that would make it more comfortable and convenient at the expense of others.

---

(It does, unfortunately, depend on a large number of people growing my food, making my clothes, and soldering my electronics largely being treated like shit, but none of those are immutable facts of the world.)

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.8 million voters over the age of 55 die every year in the US. 4 million voters turn 18. We're just arguing time horizon and cohort turn out rates. Bernie was just too early after Reagan, globalization, and deregulation. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/03/01/1-generation... https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/01/17/generat... https://archive.is/iRyQE https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2014/…

Except that people also age out of far left ideas. The 18 year old who's like "hell yeah, ownership is theft, raise the taxes" feels differently when they turn 35 and have to pay those taxes.

I'm well into my 30s, in the top few percent for income in the US, and live in California (one of the highest tax states), and I happily pay them. I'm alive today because of their benefits, and I'd be the worst kind of hypocrite to pull the ladder up after me.

People's objection to social safety nets mostly isn't their desire to keep their money. It's a perception that the people who need those safety nets are lazy bums who don't deserve help. That's a particularly common perception among hard-working professionals, whose logic is "I worked hard to get where I am, so if others worked hard, they wouldn't need help". What they miss in that analysis, of course, is that their hard work combines with talent, luck, privilege, and health, things that many people who suffer lack. As a relative newcomer to the economic elite, I find it pretty distressing to hear how wealthy people talk about the poor when I myself was homeless less than five years ago.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an unbelievable take that I suspect if fueled by an over extrapolation of online culture and the news. Get a grip.

It’s fueled by my working in restaurants for ~7 years in my 20s. If you’d experienced people throwing food at you because they didn’t like how it was made, sexually harassing and hurling racist insults at your coworkers, among other, myriad abuses, you’d probably feel the same. And that’s just describing the customers, not even addressing how management behaved. Not all of us have had the luxury to spend our lives mu…

I've worked plenty of food service in my life. You're making the mistake of overrepresenting the worst behavior. All of those things are out of line in American society.

I don't think you should read so much into my hobby either.

Post reply on HN