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A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

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Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#241

Post by [deleted] »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #162
jrochkind1 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, in general, things we buy today are a lot more "affordable" while being lower quality. Googling says the average cost of a refrigerator in 1950 was $250 to $400 (for 10 cubic feet -- a fridge today is 20 to 30 ft^3), which would be $3K to $5K in 2023 dollars. If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure.

Is there really a correlation between price and durability in appliances?

[deleted]

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#242

Post by jancsika »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #101
starbugs wrote: post #3

> Thing is, producing crappy, cookie-cutter, uninspired, overpriced junk that falls apart within 5 years (generously speaking) pays more to the shareholders. That's how we got from there to here. This summarizes it quite well for me.

I mean, in general, things we buy today are a lot more "affordable" while being lower quality. Googling says the average cost of a refrigerator in 1950 was $250 to $400 (for 10 cubic feet -- a fridge today is 20 to 30 ft^3), which would be $3K to $5K in 2023 dollars. If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure.

The best low-end Frigidaire you can get today is around $750.

For $5k you could buy 6.7 of them.

Lowe's extended warranty appears to be 5 years, so I'm guessing these things are designed to last 6 years.

6 * 6.7 = 40.2 years.

My own estimation is that a $5k fridge today will last perhaps 10. And most of that money is going toward smart features that add complexity, which adds to the risk of having to pay for repairs. And it's not like those companies stop using cheapo plastic and styrofoam in their more expensive fridges.

Still, I'd like to know how much it would cost per year in electricity to run one of the old models like in the ad.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#243

Post by ajot »

seer wrote: post #160

A side not I always wondered why don't we have refrigerator models that are "split system" as we have with ACs. As it stands now it's a heat pump that pumps the heat from your refrigerator into your home. Wouldn't it be possible to create way more energy efficient model that has an outside body? Or even better connects to the AC body you already have outside? Like in the summer it would "help" the AC by being another…

> Wouldn't it be possible to create way more energy efficient model that has an outside body?

Lots of shops (think mostly of butchers, charcuterie or take-away restaurants) here in Argentina do this, I think mostly to avoid all that heat and noise being trapped in the premises.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#244

Post by rsynnott »

thomasahle wrote: post #194
lb1lf wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll recycle a comment I made in another thread a few years ago: When clearing out my grandmother's house a few years ago, my uncle and I almost broke our backs trying to get the freezer out. It felt like it weighed a ton, even empty. My grandmother told us it had been a wedding present, and that they had been totally awestruck at the time at the generous present from her parents-in-law. After all, a decent freezer c…

2,000kr is $300. If you earn that in five hours, you make around $10,000/month after taxes. So more than double the median of $4,632/month. But okay, even at that median, I guess it's just two days of work. Are you sure you had to work 5 months for a freezer at median work in 1950? Seems nobody would buy them then.

After tax, in many places you have to work a _decade_ at the median wage for a house (or in some places considerably more). And yet people buy those.

Domestic appliances really have gotten dramatically cheaper relative to earning power, pretty much everywhere. Have a look at some old prices and compare to median wages; it's really fairly dramatic for most stuff.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#245

Post by lopis »

markus_zhang wrote: post #138
jrochkind1 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, in general, things we buy today are a lot more "affordable" while being lower quality. Googling says the average cost of a refrigerator in 1950 was $250 to $400 (for 10 cubic feet -- a fridge today is 20 to 30 ft^3), which would be $3K to $5K in 2023 dollars. If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure.

Nowadays it's difficult to just pay premium and trust things to last for decades. A more likely event is that you pay premium, get more features, and the appliance breaks down if one of which breaks.

Specially since companies are moving to selling you the service of repairs. It's well know that fridges with water coolers and ice makers are very prone to breaking. I like the features in the video though, as those are just fancy shelves that are unlikely to break. Nowadays, most fridge special features come in the form of complex electronics, IoT and other tech that is likely to break within a couple years.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#246

Post by LorenPechtel »

seer wrote: post #160

A side not I always wondered why don't we have refrigerator models that are "split system" as we have with ACs. As it stands now it's a heat pump that pumps the heat from your refrigerator into your home. Wouldn't it be possible to create way more energy efficient model that has an outside body? Or even better connects to the AC body you already have outside? Like in the summer it would "help" the AC by being another…

While I really like the idea of a split system approach you run into some big installation issues. Namely, the refrigerant is a restricted product that can only be handled by licensed professionals.

Thus, what I would like to see is a system where the refrigerator has two air pipes to the outside and a concept of heating/cooling load. It would have an ambient temperature thermostat that would say to reject heat indoors if it's below X degrees in the room, otherwise reject it to the outdoors. It would also have the concept of using outdoor air in lieu of it's compressor if it was cold enough.

(And I would like to see an integrated HVAC temperature control, also--you set the minimum, ideal and maximum temperatures. If ambient air can be used in lieu of power it does so--and stops at the ideal temperature rather than the limit temperature. Instead of heat/cool/off settings you have on/vacation/off, in vacation mode it only enforces the minimum and maximum and ignores the ideal and it has different settings for minimum and maximum. And, yes, I want a maximum when on vacation--I don't want to bake the insides at the 110F that could easily happen in the summer here.)

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#247

Post by bombcar »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #237
bombcar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it - high quality stuff is often still made, but it's expensive and/or has other downsides that you really do need to be aware of. For example, commercial equipment is often bullet-proof and long-lived, but it can be louder than you'd want in a home kitchen. Commercial dish washers have no noise insulation, get hot, but can wash dishes so fast they can crack them from the temperature changes. Commercial ovens…

I can’t imagine even worse insulation than a normal oven. Whenever I open my broiler door and pull out the drawer I can see the kitchen floor getting the 500* blast straight on.

Imagine that level of insulation on everything, including the door. Kids aren't under the oven and can't touch that, so it's often not insulated or insulated badly (which should be taken into consideration when designing a kitchen).

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#248

Post by kjkjadksj »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #211
amluto wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> new stuff that came out in the last 20 years. There isn’t really that much of this. Let’s consider an oven: Good temperature control: accurate, precise and reliable temperature sensors (e.g. thermocouples) have been around for a long time, as have switching devices that are plenty high speed to make an excellent oven. PID control would be easy with 1980 technology or current technology. Ovens with good temperature…

> The only thing $7k buys you is a nice brand name and maybe slightly more solid construction than a much cheaper unit.) Typically you also get: more BTUs, better simmer control, easier repairability (due to construction design). I'm not arguing it's worth the money (which is why I got my $15k stove from craigslist for $2k :)

Three things that hardly matter for thousands. You can still boil water and simmer with the cheap stove. My parents stove is probably well over two decades old and never needed a repair for anything. I imagine a techician will have an easier time repairing a basic gas range where all the parts are generic compared to getting the miele certified mechanic out or whatever.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#249

Post by lopis »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #34

70 years ago a fridge would cost $250-$400 - about a months salary, that's about $4k in todays money. If you pay $4k for a fridge instead of $400 today you can get one with a fair amount of gadgets too.

But that's the thing. We don't want today's gadgets. We don't need internet connected fridges, apps and other breakable IoTs. We just want more usable fridges.

Re: A fridge from 70 years ago has better features than the fridge I own now

#250

Post by rsynnott »

dragontamer wrote: post #132
jrochkind1 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, in general, things we buy today are a lot more "affordable" while being lower quality. Googling says the average cost of a refrigerator in 1950 was $250 to $400 (for 10 cubic feet -- a fridge today is 20 to 30 ft^3), which would be $3K to $5K in 2023 dollars. If you pay $3K to $5K for a fridge today (for a fridge 2-3x as big as the 1950 fridge), do you get a better longer-lasting one? I'm not sure.

Refrigerators might be a bad example because we got rid of highly effective refrigerants on purpose to patch a hole in the ozone layer. Or perhaps more accurately, to stop poking a giant hole in the ozone layer.

I don't think freon fridges were inherently mechanically any more reliable than fridges using modern refrigerants. If anything slightly less so all else being equal, I'd have thought.
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