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Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

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Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#241

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #221
rngname22 wrote: post #14

This is just legal cover until such time as its possible to enforce no child exploitation imagery, no copyright stuff, etc. It doesn't matter if they are able to enforce it, Valve can use this policy as cover if they ever get sued. Don't overthink the motivation. They will not even have a bulletproof way to detect AI imagery as it evolves every single day as an arm's race and detection is a full-time job. Even a FAAN…

> They will not even have a bulletproof way to detect AI imagery as it evolves every single day as an arm's race and detection is a full-time job. Even a FAANG or a state actor would need to dedicate team(s) to detection technology and still have false negatives. Are people actually trying to detect AI-generated content? That would not only be pointless and futile; the threat of false positives would be enormously de…

I know companies that are trying to do this, yes. The detection tools are terrible, but places really do not want writers submitting AI-written content, for example.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#242

Post by eropple »

Animats wrote: post #200
eropple wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not being "rejected entirely". That is mendacious editorializing. Generative AI products are being rejected unless you affirm that you have rights to the entirety of the training data set . What's wrong with that?

That you probably don't need rights to the training set in the US, unless Congress changes copyright law. This is being litigated.[1] Humans can look at a collection of copyrighted images and draw a new picture. The legal basis for holding AIs to a higher standard is weak. Current litigation: [1] [1] https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/16/23557098/generative-ai-ar...

> That you probably don't need rights to the training set in the US

Even if that is true--and it's not sure to be--Valve is within their rights to demand additional coverage.

> Humans can look at a collection of copyrighted images and draw a new picture. The legal basis for holding AIs to a higher standard is weak.

Horseshit and worse words. Computers aren't people. They create derivative works from pushing inputs through mathematical models. The inputs are unerasable and the claims to the otherwise by the AI hustler class exist only to be able to profit off human effort without paying for it.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#243

Post by eropple »

brucethemoose2 wrote: post #155
eropple wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you tell Valve that and they say "OK"?

Would they though? I think the legality of the dataset would be hard to prove. And I can see some game devs straight up lying, shipping SD 1.5/Llama, and dragging Valve into court when one of them explodes in popularity.

> I think the legality of the dataset would be hard to prove.

Could be. I hope it is. It's a reason not to use it!

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#244

Post by janosdebugs »

snowman647 wrote: post #175

That's the wrong path, soon Internet for 90%++ will be mixed with AI. Btw - What if I write my game using Chat-GPT?

I recently tried to use it to learn the Blender API, without much success. It halucinates left right and center, so I had to go back to reading the docs, trial and error, as well as reverse engineering. I'd be honestly surprised if you could use it to create an entire game.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#245

Post by alpaca128 »

wiz21c wrote: post #126
justapassenger wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risk management. AI generated content has high likelihood of copyright infringement.

funny, a while ago MSFT said Copilot was not stealing code, it was merely reading it...

I'd say that too if I was Microsoft, but that doesn't make it true.

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#247

Post by valine »

c-hendricks wrote: post #202
euix wrote: post #165

Midjourney has been really helpful to me as a one man dev. I can mockup art much faster then what I can do in photoshop. I still intend to at some point do a complete pass using a professional artist (or learn to draw myself) - because generative art is not consistent thematically from asset to asset. But if I just want to see what my tile assets look like if they were all done in 30's art deco style, I can do it in…

And no one is trying to take that away from you. You are using it as a tool, and intend to pay someone to create the final version, or do it yourself. The issue people have is when you just use a dataset trained on someone else's work and pass it off as your own, and in the case of Steam games, most likely profit from it.

What if I look at other people's art and learn from it? Seem unfair to pass that work off as my own. All artists should be banned from looking at copyrighted images, we can't risk them incorporating copyrighted elements into their own work. /s

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#248

Post by Eji1700 »

freedomben wrote: post #39
Eji1700 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a CYA thing. Steam says "we don't allow AI content". Someone shoves AI content on the platform anyways. If it can be proved they violated the TOS, they then have the ability to nuke their game and stop someone from suing them. If they can't prove it, well they can't prove it and the game stays. To do otherwise opens up the door to steam having to "vet" all the AI content. So yes AI content will slip through (in…

If Steam (or probably more likely Steam's lawyers) is/are worried about liability, shouldn't Epic be also? The lawsuits are firing up, I wouldn't want to be the whipping boy chosen by the copyright holders to punish.

I would assume so, but I'm faaaar from an expert.

My amateur opinion is there's too much money to be made for this to be stopped forever (we SHOULD rework copyright but we'll probably just make some dumb rule when disney decides how they want to handle it), so epic might just say "the courts will side with us eventually and the benefits are waaay too high to ignore"

Re: Valve is not willing to publish games with AI generated content anymore?

#249

Post by ryathal »

kemayo wrote: post #81
bunga-bunga wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a cop-out. They can't possibly verify that any content they're hosting isn't already copyrighted, let alone in a "murky copyright state"

They have a manual review step when you submit a game. Although you're right that they can't catch everything, they can certainly catch obvious things. I'm sure they mostly just don't want to wind up in court with a lawyer being able to say that they let [blatant example here] get published on their store. So long as they can credibly claim that there was no way for them to tell something was in an objectionable cate…

I doubt their manual review actually does much of anything. There are already tons of "games" that don't actually function that are just pre-built engine assets shoved together.
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