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June 2023 Data Dump is missing

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Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#241

Post by firesteelrain »

abeyer wrote: post #235
firesteelrain wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://hub.packtpub.com/developers-dont-belong-on-a-pedesta...

What? How do you justify declaring a person as a whole "super toxic" with only a link to an interview citing a link to a blog post including "Things like… hyper-competition… an over focus on aggressive competition… things like zero sum thinking" when: * the post is about interviewing which mostly is, for better or worse, a competitive zero-sum process. * the post is more than a decade old (then, more like two now.) *…

I linked to one article.

You are free to find your own.

I was part of Stack Overflow in the beginning and experienced it first hand back then

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#242

Post by throwaway81523 »

bombcar wrote: post #236
version_five wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of shit is poison. It's like there's a weakness in community run stuff that allows people to come in and co-opt it for their own agenda. I don't know that this is a corporate issue, it's an issue of people not pushing back because they don't want to get accused of anything and letting special interests walk all over them. It's happening everywhere. But I agree, no point on dealing with people who spend thei…

It’s starting to look like benevolent dictator is the way to go as that has at least a small chance of survival

I dunno, look what happened to RMS.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#243

Post by DANmode »

bombcar wrote: post #236
version_five wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of shit is poison. It's like there's a weakness in community run stuff that allows people to come in and co-opt it for their own agenda. I don't know that this is a corporate issue, it's an issue of people not pushing back because they don't want to get accused of anything and letting special interests walk all over them. It's happening everywhere. But I agree, no point on dealing with people who spend thei…

It’s starting to look like benevolent dictator is the way to go as that has at least a small chance of survival

Torvalds, Micay

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#244

Post by sitkack »

marcosdumay wrote: post #193
sitkack wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then community projects subscribe to the feeds and index and make searchable? I could see basically structured toots representing questions and then ... oh man, did you just nerd snipe this? Are you saying that it should be managed by Mastodon the org, or fediverse the technology?

I meant the technology. The one downside that I see is that AFAIK, there is bad support for editing questions and answers. If something like this is created, there could be threads of patches making any edition, but that requires tooling support. (And yeah, I'm purposefully trying to nerd-sniping people here :)

You have to paint a nicer starting canvas to really lure in the nerds, they can add one pretty little bush and feel like they just made the Mona Lisa. Extra points if there are two natural yet divisive solutions. Truly a tire-fire of flame war in the making. Events! gRPC! Both! Kafka! Rabbit!

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#245

Post by jjav »

lumb63 wrote: post #16

This, along with recent Reddit goings-on has made me realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication. Take either Reddit or Stack Exchange as examples. They build a platform, and users contribute their time, thought, energy, and knowledge to build a community on that platform. Those companies can then gatekeep and restrict access to all that the community built, when all they did is provide th…

> realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication

I wish this lesson could be learned once for all.

A long-lived community/repository cannot be built on a proprietary platform owned by some corporation. Full stop, no exception. It can't be done. A corporation will at some point need to maximize profit extraction which will ruin it for everyone. A corporation also won't support a platform forever nor can the entity itself survive forever. A single point of failure can't last forever.

> We need to decentralize our communications

Look at the solutions which have lasted longest. Email & mailing lists, going strong since the 1970s. Completely decentralized, interoperability defined by open standard protocols, anyone can build interoperable clients and servers. Nobody owns it. There's no "it" to own. That is what's needed for long term viability.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#246

Post by jjav »

pc_edwin wrote: post #134
lumb63 wrote: post #16

This, along with recent Reddit goings-on has made me realize a major risk with the current structure of online communication. Take either Reddit or Stack Exchange as examples. They build a platform, and users contribute their time, thought, energy, and knowledge to build a community on that platform. Those companies can then gatekeep and restrict access to all that the community built, when all they did is provide th…

I believe we'll have more of these oh s** moments soon when people will finally realise why we need web3. Yes the whole space was full of scammers, charlatans but the technology and point was to create a substrate for networks on the internet. The idea that these networks and communities need to run on centralised servers is archaic. The technology exists where people should be able to own their own network (follower…

> I believe we'll have more of these oh s* moments soon when people will finally realise why we need web3.

Well no, what we need is web0, the original premise of the Internet.

Every protocol was documented in open RFCs, everything is decentralized and everyone is free to use any client and server (or write their own) and everything interoperates. Nobody can own it, there's no "it" to own. That's the only solution to eliminate the otherwise neverending cycle of proprietary platforms followed by their inevitable "oh s* moment".

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#247

Post by pc_edwin »

acdha wrote: post #155
pc_edwin wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we'll have more of these oh s** moments soon when people will finally realise why we need web3. Yes the whole space was full of scammers, charlatans but the technology and point was to create a substrate for networks on the internet. The idea that these networks and communities need to run on centralised servers is archaic. The technology exists where people should be able to own their own network (follower…

web3 failed because it was a rebranding exercise by cryptocurrency holders trying to create new demand for their random numbers. Centralized servers aren’t archaic, they’re a natural outcome of how social systems work: finding communities is hard; people want to contribute their ideas, not play sysadmin; spammers and AI researchers will create enormous costs for you; etc. If you federate, you will have more time deal…

I tend to agree but where we diverge is in the thinking that these problems cannot be solved with technology, I believe the opposite.

The point of web3 is to abstract away things like sysadmin by commoditising consensus. Once a blockchain gains mass & momentum it opens up a whole new world of possibilities to hack/reinvent social media.

You could use multiple different types of social media and still maintain a single identity (auth). This means you could find friends and friendlies everywhere you go.

The key is the consensus layer and the ability to store & and read critical metadata. I'll give a personal example:

I've been helping a friend to create a combination of Netflix and DVDs. We package the movie licenses into NFTs (MovieKeys) so when the user signs in with their wallet they can stream all the movies in they own.

There are so many possibilities with this but lets focus on the social part. In theory, a social media service could scan their users wallet for MovieKeys and create a social graph based on that. Heck you could create entire forums just out of the people who owns a certain moviekey. I wont go further because we go a lot of things cooking atm.

The general point is, the technology and the UX to make these things possible is just an arms length away. The entire space got ravaged by scam artists instead of trying to build real magical experiences people actually want.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#248

Post by pc_edwin »

danShumway wrote: post #166
pc_edwin wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we'll have more of these oh s** moments soon when people will finally realise why we need web3. Yes the whole space was full of scammers, charlatans but the technology and point was to create a substrate for networks on the internet. The idea that these networks and communities need to run on centralised servers is archaic. The technology exists where people should be able to own their own network (follower…

Let's be honest though, the primary thing that attracted most powerful people to web3 wasn't decentralization, it was reintroduction of artificial scarcity into digital spaces. Web3 billed itself as empowering users, but it always had an undercurrent of commodification and gatekeeping. And that's exactly why (ignoring the scammers or pump-and-dump businesses) it saw such heavy investment from VC/tech types. The promi…

Again I'm in agreement with everything you are saying here including the part with "other efforts".

I just think we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because the space got ravaged by zero interest rates, VC's, scammers, charlatans, snake oil salesman and even worse, it doesn't mean the technology and the premise was wrong.

Having a ledger that is secured by decentralised consensus is not only useful but will be a necessity for the digital first future we are heading towards.

We are reaching the limits of the current paradigm. We see companies like Meta having to be the arbiter of consensus. We've seen platforms showing their true faces and commoditising peoples data and network which wasn't really theirs to begin with.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#249

Post by pc_edwin »

sumtechguy wrote: post #158
pc_edwin wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we'll have more of these oh s** moments soon when people will finally realise why we need web3. Yes the whole space was full of scammers, charlatans but the technology and point was to create a substrate for networks on the internet. The idea that these networks and communities need to run on centralised servers is archaic. The technology exists where people should be able to own their own network (follower…

I got burned on this sort of thing for cddb. Hundreds of discs entered in. Suddenly that data was someone elses and they charged for it.

Yeh most of decentralised cloud companies are very silly.

Re: June 2023 Data Dump is missing

#250

Post by pc_edwin »

jjav wrote: post #246
pc_edwin wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we'll have more of these oh s** moments soon when people will finally realise why we need web3. Yes the whole space was full of scammers, charlatans but the technology and point was to create a substrate for networks on the internet. The idea that these networks and communities need to run on centralised servers is archaic. The technology exists where people should be able to own their own network (follower…

> I believe we'll have more of these oh s* moments soon when people will finally realise why we need web3. Well no, what we need is web0, the original premise of the Internet. Every protocol was documented in open RFCs, everything is decentralized and everyone is free to use any client and server (or write their own) and everything interoperates. Nobody can own it, there's no "it" to own. That's the only solution to…

The world we live in today is very different the world web0 was created for, its older than me.

Don't get me wrong, standardised protocols play a very important role in the current world and it will play a bigger role in the future of the internet (Scuttlebutt, IPFS, Matrix..).

Its just not enough, we need a decentralised way to provide consensus on the internet. People wont set up their own servers, companies that provide these services will always look like a Pareto distribution (FAANG or MAMAA).

In other words, FAANG or what ever the next incarnation of these companies are always incentivised to get rid of interoperability. Selfish reasons aside, after a certain point interop will directly stand in the way of providing better user experiences.

This is why web3 is such an elegant system. It provides a substrate that directly incentivises interoperability. Auth and payments is taken care off, the only thing remaining is custom features but that gets rapidly commoditised, then the only frontier remaining is interoperability.

A good example of this is the NFT marketplaces: Auth is just connecting your wallet. Payments are taken care off. Then you build cool features but everybody else copies you and you copy them so thats a stalemate. Then you have to be interoperable, like OpenSea going multi chain or Magic Eden supporting Eth.

The key here is, the moment someone else supports interoperability, if you dont you are put at a large disadvantage. The same kind of dynamics will happen to decentralised social media platforms.

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