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Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

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Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#241

Post by makeitdouble »

kmod wrote: post #155

Not trying to express an opinion on the legal matter, but as a technical matter it's pretty obvious that LLMs create copies of (some of) their training data. Here's GPT-3.5 reciting the Declaration of Independence: https://chat.openai.com/share/eb30c373-7fec-4280-892d-479567... Unless you're claiming that GPT-3.5 is deriving the Declaration of Independence (from information about the founding fathers?) I don't see ho…

> as a technical matter it's pretty obvious that LLMs create copies of (some of) their training data.

Browsers also create copies of the viewed data. Computers hold in memory a copy of everything they're working on.

The central point is for how long, and to what purpose. This law is not about making copies or not, but what happens after.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#242

Post by fomine3 »

Loocid wrote: post #219
johnwalkr wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have concrete examples? I recently moved from Japan to Europe after 10 years in Japan and while some things seemed old-fashioned in Japan, things also change overnight there. During Covid most companies changed to digital signing. In Japan I often needed a paper from the city, but it was an easy-to-obtain printout I could get immediately from city hall or even from 7-11. I tend to require the same papers in Eu…

My personal experience has only been from the tourism side with one concrete example being digital payments outside of PayPay. It's much better post COVID but even on my most recent trip from a couple of months ago if you want pay by card, the vast majority of the time you're signing with pen and paper. Rarely did they offer pin or tap which is common elsewhere. Anecdotally I only know stories from people that I know…

In my experience with Japan local IC/NFC credit card, I've never signed when I use CC in recent 5 years but PIN is sometimes needed. Do you use magnetic stripe CC?

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#243

Post by fnordpiglet »

mywittyname wrote: post #137
karaterobot wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, I don't believe any of that matters with trademarks. If someone came up with the Superman logo on their own, and released a product that used it, they could not say "but it's a really simple logo" and get a free pass. I'm not sure what that means for ChatGPT, but it would certainly factor into your use of images produced by ChatGPT.

I feel like this is a very strong point that just gets hand-waved away. There are numerous cases where AI-generated content is an exact copy of a derived work. This happens with text, music, and art. If a we have ai-powered content generation in a video game, and you put into a prompt, "generate 300 mickey mouses, then play some music that sounds like Taylor Swift's new album", and the results look exactly like micke…

It is copyright infringement - but it was you who promoted the production of the copyright violations who is at fault. The model isn’t specifically any more a copyright violation than a browser cache or a photocopier. The person who uses the machine to produce violations is at fault, not the thing that in addition to legitimate transformed works can be used to produce copyright violations. As a company hosting such a service my goal would be similar to YouTube where I do a best effort to monitor for violation and guard rail the best I can. But I shouldn’t be held liable for your intentional use of a product for ill so long as I did do that best effort.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#244

Post by AlexandrB »

2023throwawayy wrote: post #39
scottiebarnes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose so. I'm just imagining these "ghost AI artists" who publish catalogues of music using the audible likeness of more prolific artists. I know that you could have always just hired an Eminem impersonator and have them lay down tracks...but this technology lets you achieve speed and scale. At least the Eminem impersonator was a real person. This is just a model learned off an artists voice.

> At least the Eminem impersonator was a real person. This is just a model learned off an artists voice. I fail to see how that has any difference on the output.

We're all fucking doomed. All these "clever" comparisons between AI and human processes (e.g. "training an AI is just like a human learning"), is not elevating AI to the status of a real person. It's degrading real human creations to homogeneous "content" that is increasingly seen as equivalent to what can be churned out by a GPU farm.

50 years from now we'll still be listening to "AI Eminem" while watching "Avengers Midgame 12, The Revengening" and any concept of cultural or artistic expression beyond what will sell next quarter will be dead and buried.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#245

Post by Loocid »

rtpg wrote: post #237
Loocid wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I find bizarre given how backwards Japan is in the adoption of other technologies. Eg their continued reliance on paper records and fax machines.

Perhaps places are multifaceted and not reducible to 2-bit facts like the usage of fax machines or lack of credit card adoption.

Of course, I just find the the stereotype vs reality of Japan being a high tech wonderland interesting.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#246

Post by Loocid »

fomine3 wrote: post #242
Loocid wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal experience has only been from the tourism side with one concrete example being digital payments outside of PayPay. It's much better post COVID but even on my most recent trip from a couple of months ago if you want pay by card, the vast majority of the time you're signing with pen and paper. Rarely did they offer pin or tap which is common elsewhere. Anecdotally I only know stories from people that I know…

In my experience with Japan local IC/NFC credit card, I've never signed when I use CC in recent 5 years but PIN is sometimes needed. Do you use magnetic stripe CC?

>Do you use magnetic stripe CC.

All my cards have an IC, however they were Australian cards. Perhaps it's an additional step for foreign credit/debit cards?

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#247

Post by Prickle »

Loocid wrote: post #152
georgewsinger wrote: post #6

Japan also ranks 3rd (behind the USA & India, with larger populations) in ChatGPT usage: https://www.demandsage.com/chatgpt-statistics/ There's also been discussion of their government using ChatGPT to reduce red tape: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-18/japan-gov... It's cool to see Japan and Japanese culture taking techno-optimist stances on AI.

Which I find bizarre given how backwards Japan is in the adoption of other technologies. Eg their continued reliance on paper records and fax machines.

I would not say we are super reliant on paper/fax anymore.

But, it is still quite common. I did receive a Fax at the office last week on Thursday.

Oh, and some of our stuff uses Dialup, usually in relation to that older infrastructure. Got thrown for a loop this wednesday when ye good old Dialup (acoustic handshake) audio started screeching across the office. Did not realize we still used it at all!

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#249

Post by AlexandrB »

trafficante wrote: post #196
scottiebarnes wrote: post #12

So if you train an audio model on say, Eminem's voice, then write some songs and have it perform them...Would this output be legal to publish?

I hope smarter minds than myself will somehow figure out a way to square this circle and get heavy restrictions on commercial usage without killing the technology outright. As far as AI rap goes: Notorious BIG is (by far) my favorite rapper of all time, yet he died in his early 20s with barely any unreleased songs in the vault. For me, as an aging superfan, AI deepfakes have me feeling 15 again - like Biggie is still…

There's a saying in physics that the field "advances one funeral at a time". I don't understand the impulse to bring back artists of the past like this. At best, it's a hollow pantomime, and at worst it can be tremendously offensive too their memory. Moreover, how will the medium move forward if every new artist has to now compete for mindshare with every artist that lived and died since 1950 or so? Not just their legacy works (which is hard enough) but "new material" cranked out by AI.

Re: Japan’s government will not enforce copyrights on data used in AI training

#250

Post by senko »

jasrys wrote: post #184

I testified to the US Copyright Office this morning on AI in their roundtable session on AI and music[1]. A good portion of the focus of this panel was on whether copyrighted inputs (in this case, sound recordings and musical compositions) being fed into AI models for training purposes could plausibly constitute a fair use under existing US copyright law. Some of the comments here are missing the context of the recen…

> allow access to our songs for AI training purposes if the artist/writer so desires

This (a) means nothing since the copyright holder can already do whatever they want, including licensing the works for any purpose; and (b) is even more restrictive than compulsory licensing which require the copyright holder to license (at a fee) the work.

The solution you describe as a win-win would either create a quagmire of crisscrossing licensing deals (AI need a lot of input, you can't train them on one artist), or in effect create an impenetrable moat for mega corporations such as Disney or Sony who would be the only ones with enough heft to pull it it.

It's actually a lose-lose situation.

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